Black women have no option?
Warning: This post may be offensive to some readers. This is not the objective. The post is in no way meant to defame or inflame any parties, groups or persons. It is simply meant to find out what people think about black white dating.
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In a bid to explain why Black women get upset about Black men dating White women, Chris Rock in his latest stand up comedy says all Black men have done is exercised their option. He goes on to say Black women are angry because they are not attracted to white men so they can’t exercise their option. All they can do is sleep with “pretty white boys" but generally, black women are not attracted to white men.
In my opinion, the above statements suggest Black women only date interracially out of desperation. In fact, most Black men believe so. And the finger pointing between Black men and Black women never ends. I don't think this is the case though and frankly, I have never understood why Black men and Black women have to come up with such crude and prejudiced remarks while trying to figure out the reasoning behind their counterparts' dating options. YES! Options.
What do you think of Chris Rock's theory?
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636 responses to "Black women have no option?"
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queenie1967 says:Posted: 20 Sep 09Hello Everyone ming away from the subject just a bit, I just wanted all of us to reflect for a minute we speak of slavery something we never really been exposed to like our parents, grandparents, great aunts and uncles, I am a 60's child: Malcom X (1925-1965) Ralph Abernathy (1925-1968), w.e.b. Dubois (1868-1963), Medgar Evers ( 1925-1963) & Martin L. King 91925-1965). Question did all of these civil right leaders die in vain? It breaks my heart to hear us as black people and people disreapect each other men and and women alike judge each other because of a preference. If that black man is attracted to white women oh well because there was time if he as much looked side ways at a white woman he was lynched or beaten to death...right....history said so...if that black woman is attracted to that white man or well because remember she had no choice...lets night forget history...thats what the civil right movement was about the choice to attend any school or college I wanted to, to live in communities were I was not permitted to walk through or live, the choice to eat in any restaurant I wanted not in the back but in the front..the choice to sit beside instead in the back of the bus...the choice to date whom ever I wanted. We were killed for being with someone opposite of us but now we have a choice and you call a black men and women sellout and we bash each other because of a choice we made to be with someone thats non black, does it mean that I hate my self..no it means simply YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO A WOMAN OR MAN, NOT THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN JUST THE PERSON..FATE IS SOMETHING PEOPLE AS LONG AS YOU LIVE YOU CAN NEVER SAY NEVER BECAUSE BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE A LIAR OUT OF YOU. LOVE LIFE AND LIVE AND BE GRATEFUL YOUR STILL HERE. BLACK WOMEN WE ARE BEAUTIFUL,STRONG AND WE COME IN MANY SHADES OF COLOUR SHAPES AND SIZES: "IF GOD IS FOR YOU NO MAN CAN BE AGAINST YOU". THESE LEADERS DIE FOR ALL US - FOR EQUALITY AND HEAR WE ARE HATING, BASHING AND DISREPEATING EACH OTHER..I KNOW THEY ARE TURNING IN THEIR GRAVES RIGHT. NOW. RACISM IS VERY MUCH ALIVE BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE TO ...SAD.. MARTIN L.KING QUOTES: •Without love, benevolence becomes egotism. •We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools. •We have flown the air like birds and swum the sea like fishes, but have yet to learn the simple act of walking the earth like brothers. •Everybody can be great because anybody can serve. You don't have to have college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love. •Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true. Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love. On August After being arrested and jailed in Birmingham, AL, Martin Luther King, Jr helped organize a march on Washington, DC, on 28 August 1963. His partners in the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom included other religious leaders, labor leaders, and black organizers. The march went down the Washington Mall from the Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial. In front of the Lincoln Memorial, King delivered this closing speech, which was carried live on network television. The speech is credited with mobilizing supporters of desegregation and prompted the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation. Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity. But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we've come here today to dramatize a shameful condition. In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds." But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children. It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges. But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone. And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their self-hood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating: "For Whites Only." We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until "justice rolls down like waters, and righteoI am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of you have come from areas where your quest -- quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends. And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today! I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today! I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together." This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with. With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day. And this will be the day -- this will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with new meaning: My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim's pride, From every mountainside, let freedom ring! And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true. And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania. Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado. Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California. But not only that: Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia. Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee. Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. And when this happens, when we allow freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! usness like a mighty stream."
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Azrazyel says:Posted: 20 Sep 09nikkay87: You sound disturbed. You have a preference to date black men. You don't need to hate black men who date white women.
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nikkay87 says:Posted: 19 Sep 09
I am an african american young woman. I am 21 years old and a junior at a prodiminently white university. I'm into the arts, traveling (I lived in europe for 2 semesters to study Italian) and I must say I have a hard time finding "Brothas" who share my same interests even "sistahs". I'm often critized for being the token black girl b/c I'm always one of the few black people present when I do the things I love. Even when I attend plays about black characters I am one of the few blacks in the audience. That is sad. At the end of the day I exclusively date black men b/c that is my preference. I am sure there are good white men out there and have been approached by white men in the past but I'm not attracted them, no offense. There are white men who are good looking but they don't satisfy my appetite culturally, sexually, or in any other way. And that is not meant to offend anyone. Every black woman I know all want black men. There are a few and very few who date white men out of desperation b/c the black men they encounter don't treat them right or b/c they feel by dating a white guy they are granted access into that "white world". I live in an predominantly white neighborhood not because I want to be around white people b/c I want to be safe. I want a Barnes and Nobles 2 blocks away and a cold stone. I want a bank and a grocery store that sells top of the line meats and produce. Not meat that's gone bad for exuberant prices. And I am insulted when black men and young boys date white women at the rates that they date them. I have befriended great women who are in fact white. But, I don't see brothers even dating them. When I ask my uncles, brothers, fellow "Brothas", and peers why, why white women? They simple reply, that they are easy and buy them things. They say that white women are the "it factor " and then put black women down. They call me an exception. I am no exception to the rule. There are plenty of black women who are educated, open-minding to new things, cultured (outside of their own), and childless. There are many black women who are attractive and independent. All that we ask our black men is to cooperate with us and do their part. And I find it disgusting that many "brothas" will feed "sistahs" excuses then turn around and get themselves together so that they have something for themselves and then turn around and have white women reap their rewards. Black love is Black wealth. And it hurts to hear "brothas" say white women are easy even as a black woman b/c I know many white women who I have alot of respect for and are anything but. I'm not writing this post to defend anyone. I am writing this post b/c black men and black women need to establish a dialogue. We need to come in terms with ourselves before we go outside b/c it will only be for all of the wrong reasons. The reality is why discriminate against your own kind? Have black women regressed to breeders? We breed these men but aren't good enough to marry? The foot ball players and other public figures have set a trend. And as with all trends, they have their followers. What is interracial union promoting when 9 out 10 it involves a black man and a white woman? My friends who are white who've dated black men all reply that black men have the bigger penis and all of these other inflammatory responses. I take it upon myself to educate them and make them aware that I am insulted and that black men, women, black people are more than their bodily attributes and athletic skills. Lastly, black men understand that many black boys don't come from 2 parent households. When they see you in the store, walking, on tv, in your cars, in the papers, on the internet they look up to you. You influence them whether you want to see it and admit it or not. You have to ask yourself why am I with this woman. Why did I even start relations with this woman initially. Be real with yourself. When they see you, they see themselves. When they see you with white women they see themselves with white women. That's the reality. For those who really do find love in someone of another race defend your union. But, understand and recognize that everyone who is following your footsteps is not necessarily following your footsteps but mimicking them.
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Teska27 says:Posted: 15 Sep 09Well, I dont think its true that black women only date white men out of despiration. I happen to love white men and not because black men date white women. This have never bothered me and people are entitled to like who ever they want.
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Maidinheaven says:Posted: 12 Sep 09
I am very blessed; beautiful inside and out, which has left me with MANY options in the man I choose to have in my life. I have never restricted myself to what race he may have been or is. I have many options: Caucasian, Indian, Japanese, Chinese, Black, African, Swedish, German, Jewish, Latino, Mexican, Philipino, Old, Young, Cripple and Crazy. (smile) I am blessed. I know who I am and my value and worth as a woman. God made me special and I have never had a lack of attention from men. Since I know my value, I am extremely selective as to who I allow into my circle and I do not spread myself thin. Chris Rock has some issues of his own- I truly believe that if he did not have some celebrity status, he couldn't get most Black women to spit on him if he were on fire to put him out. He should just chill. Let's start something new. Find someone you can like and get on with life. This thread could stretch to the outer limits of Mars and still not be resolved. Some of these people have serious issues no idea of self-love. Some have just been made big fools out of and cannot seem to heal. Some are just down right mentally ill. Live & love before die.
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Robby_32 says:Posted: 11 Sep 09I think Chris Rock is on something. I've never posted on this site before so before I get started let me say howdy. I'm a white Southern male from the country with two awsome kids and my wife is black. She didn't date and marry me because she had no other options. She dated and married me because I treat her right. Or at least I try to.
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sites says:Posted: 09 Sep 09LMAO this world is truly in a state of decline and much of the response to this poorly written blog stands as irrefutable proof of that.
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tatted2death says:Posted: 07 Sep 09Your posts are always an excellent read, 85k....(when you keep them concise and not so personal...lol) ....quite an interesting take on things I've read/heard before. You definitely should consider writing professionally if you don't already do so. Peace
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85kguy says:Posted: 30 Aug 09I know they gonna hit my black $ss w/something and none of these people on the site can tell me what. If you love thats no problem. Uneducated slaves loved too. So did some of their white contemporaries who were abolitionists. Here is one of your abolitionist in this era (and you can read nowadays!!!). Love conquers all? I don't think so. Abolitionists conquer all for the future of an integrated America!! Rember the name: John A. Powell, this dude is special!!! excerpted from: john a. powell, , DREAMING OF A SELF BEYOND WHITENESS AND ISOLATION, 18 Washington University Journal of Law and Policy 45, 29- (2005)(90 Footnotes omitted) In the post-civil-rights era, how is it that whiteness and racial hierarchy endure despite the end of Jim Crow and the end of the legal enforcement of what many considered to be the ultimate boundary, anti-miscegenation laws? I have argued elsewhere and will continue to argue here that the way we organize our metropolitan areas, especially through persistent segregation, plays a large part in maintaining a way of racially distributing benefits and burdens, and provides the necessary space and boundary for whiteness to continue to flourish. It is clear, and increasingly accepted by contemporary geographers, that the spatial and the social are mutually constitutive. Historically, Jim Crow laws had been most heavily developed in the South. However, the North had long used more rhetorically benign ways of inscribing whiteness. While the South was using specific laws that separated whites and blacks more by status than by physical space, the North was much more likely to use spatial separation. At the time that blacks began to demand an end to Jim Crow laws and started moving north, the country was creating, on a massive scale, a new white place called the suburbs. From its inception, this place was explicitly white space. When this space was challenged by Dr. King in Cicero, a Chicago suburb, by leading a march against housing discrimination, he was attacked by angry whites and there was a withdrawing of Northern support for civil rights. In many respects, the civil rights movement in this country was about the South, and attacking the ways that the South had constructed white space. Not only was the Northern form of white space not successfully attacked, but it was actually expanded to protect and extend white privilege. Today, our arrangements of metropolitan space--persistent segregation, concentrated poverty, and fragmented governments people and opportunity in a racialized way reinscribing whiteness and its attendant privileges. We can, in part, trace this back to the government. The executive and legislative branches help finance white flight through transportation spending, subsidies and other measures, and the courts help to develop legal barriers to facilitate the exclusion of blacks and, to a lesser extent, other non-whites. For years, blacks and other marginalized groups fought to get into public space as full members, in part to have access to opportunity, but also to change the rules around space. What has happened in the last fifty years since the dismantling of Jim Crow is that rules related to public space have changed and shifted, and white space has become quasi-private. So now, the suburbs are treated as private, with the implicit right to exclude, and cities are treated as public. Blacks are now moving to the suburbs in record numbers, trying to take advantage of well-financed, high-functioning schools, and to gain access to emerging job markets and other opportunities. But to date, much of their efforts have been frustrated by the protections that the law and public policy have extended to this new white space. At one point, the Court treated local space only as a function of the State, and therefore, accessible to and able to be regulated by the State. Nevertheless, as blacks began to move to these spaces, there was an important shift as local autonomy became constitutionalized. What we are seeing today is a devolution not just back to States' Rights, which was always bound up in the right to regulate blacks and create white space, but also a devolution back to local rights, which is increasingly being used to draw boundaries around white space. The civil rights movement has been successful in opening up public space just in time to see that power and privilege shift to private space. Blacks gained power in the cities as opportunities left. This is why Winant can note that "the elimination of Jim Crow did not really occur" and that civil rights laws fail to "address the deeper logic of race in U.S. history and culture." This is not about individual preference on the part of whites. Whites did not and could not create this space without the economic and legal support of the government. This realignment has caused another major shift in political alliances in this country. Northern suburban whites have realigned with Southern whites. The realignment has been both facilitated and exploited by the Republican Party. It is based on maintaining white space by preying on white fears without the explicit use of Jim Crow laws. Even though this process was complex, some variation of it was predicted by President Johnson when he signed the voting rights act into law. So despite Brown, lunch counter sit-ins, marches on Washington, riots, speeches, hundreds of civil rights laws, and considerable gains in terms of racial attitudes, today we still live in racially segregated neighborhoods, send our children to racially segregated schools, have a transportation system and a health care system that is highly racialized, and distribute future opportunity through racialized wealth, all with virtually no reference to racism. What is particularly important to the focus of this paper is that this phenomenon of spatial racism helps explain why the ending of anti-miscegenation laws and other old white boundaries did not bring about the destruction of whiteness as a social category. Too often, we tend to focus on particular borders or boundaries, obscuring our understanding of the fluid and relational nature of these boundaries. There is not a singular way to arrange institutions and structures to preserve whiteness and recreate racial hierarchy. Our focus on what was and its demise may obscure what is, and more importantly, what will be. At the same time that Jim Crow laws were being attacked and dismantled, the country was restructuring with new boundaries that would facilitate a new form of racial hierarchy. Federal Judge Robert Carter has noted that he was mistaken in thinking that the principle problem of racial exclusion was segregation. He now notes that segregation was but a symptom of the more intractable problem of white supremacy. I do not say this in order to be pessimistic, nor to downplay the roles that segregation and white space have in creating whiteness, but simply to urge us to be aware that while we are fighting to change these racial boundaries, new and transformed structures, institutions and arrangements may be emerging to shore up whiteness.
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85kguy says:Posted: 30 Aug 09
In 1956 blacks could not just purchase property in a white community and operate a business!! Black dollars stopped circulating. Black businesses and black banks closed!! You could not even purchase a home in white america back then!! So, there were less role models and less opportunity for blacks just before the Voting Rights Act was passed into law. Black prison percentages swelled!! Public housing application rates soared in the black community!! Its a free country, but help them out if you can. Yeah, the author says "Black Women Have No Option" Someone said "If you don't know history, history will repeat itself!" (or something like that) Sorry that woman was jumped at the club in Minneapolis, MN. But she was never taught that these are the children of black urban refugees. Sometimes a white can appear like a scavenger and that can enrage other blacks. Been here 400 years, own hardly anything, but an attraction to the people that put you in the mess that you are in. White people wanting to date try to understand what you ask sometimes. It is a lot. If these black people love you they must be very good christians indeed. Others will remember stories of slave ignorance. How many slaves kept from education and opportunity loved their slave master. When "massuh" died they mourned his or her passing. I really want to ask a white person. How does a black person know that you really love them? What do you tell them? Well< Show them how white people always show up to denounce the Klan and supremacist when they march. Show them how you grew up learning and believing in your heart that apartheid was wrong in South Africa. Tell them that this is a new day. Best Regards to all.
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85kguy says:Posted: 30 Aug 09
Thanks for the praise tatted2death (great moniker!) Big ups to Azrazyel as part of my inspiration to take a higher road! All you have to do is Yahoo "Superhighways Destroyed Black Communities" and you will see why you like white men and white women more than blacks. Here are the facts brothers and sisters, here is why you have bad black men and women in your midst in abundance. You was played way back in 1956. Set up like a domino. Your community devastated before you were born by lack of representation just before you got civil rights and voting representation in local urban governments. Da Man did this, not your black men and women. No black economy, no good black men or women. Please read below from a university professor. If you are a black american, male or female, they beat you with a 42,000 mile whip before you were born and did not teach you about it. Especially the last part. Urban Expressways and the Central Cities In Postwar America Raymond A. Mohl University of Alabama at Birmingham American cities experienced dramatic change in the decades after the Second World War. These changes included the massive deconcentration of central city population, the shift of economic activities to the suburban periphery, the deindustrialization or redistribution of metropolitan manufacturing, and a racial turnover of population that left many of the largest American cities with a majority black population well before the end of the twentieth century. Various government policies contributed to these large-scale changes, such as tax and mortgage policies, public housing programs, and urban redevelopment schemes. Closely connected to these powerful urban transformations was the construction after 1956 of the national interstate highway system, a 42,500-mile network of high-speed, limited-access highways that linked cities across the country. When policy makers and highway engineers determined that the new interstate highway system should penetrate to the heart of the central cities, they made a fateful decision, but also a purposeful one. Indeed, the interstate system's urban expressways, or freeways, not only penetrated the cities but they ripped through residential neighborhoods and leveled wide swaths of urban territory, ostensibly to facilitate automobility. In retrospect, it now seems apparent that public officials and policy makers, especially at the state and local level, used expressway construction to destroy low-income and especially black neighborhoods in an effort to reshape the physical and racial landscapes of the postwar American city.
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WVMMRH says:Posted: 29 Aug 09
I date only women of my own race..preference.i don't date for the sake of diversity.i date who'm i know i'm comfortable with...again... preference. dating to be diverse ,racially or culturally,just isn't my thing.
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Trey says:Posted: 23 Aug 09
I'm a white guy, and I've always found black women attractive. I don't know why a black guy would want a white woman to be honest.
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tatted2death says:Posted: 22 Aug 09
I am so glad to see 85kguy broaden his view a bit and pick up that "olive branch"......I KNEW you had it in you..... Peace and Blessings tatted2death
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bigeyes31 says:Posted: 12 Aug 09jokeboy69 It's nice that you know what you want and are serious about handling your business. Peace
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jokeboy69 says:Posted: 11 Aug 09who the hell cares what other people think i for one dont people who ever you are attracted to and who ever makes you feel good who ever makes you melt i am atracted to black woman and i dont care wether anybody likes it or not i will be with the one who makes me compleat and for me that is a black woman
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renee24 says:Posted: 11 Aug 09
brandis67 your comment was refreshing, I agree that it is ridiculous that a person would date outside their race because they want a women that's submissive or less demanding, it's insulting their are strong women in the world regardless of race. Thanks for being real
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Ichibod says:Posted: 11 Aug 09
Brandis67, I'm tired of it, too. Everything you said was on point. "It also holds true that I cannot respect a person of either race who has to sell someone else out in order to justify their decisions." It's hard for me to be flattered by a woman who exclusively dates black men. I begin to wonder are you dating me or are you dating my race? Some people are truly genuine when they speak of their main attractions. When Black men are such and such good or bad, I think of all the ones including myself who are and are not. I had a middle school teacher who always said to, "Consider the source." Most people are the way that they are because of the guardianship they were born unto, not their race.
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brandis67 says:Posted: 10 Aug 09
You know what I get tired of? The implication that a Black man dates me, as a white women,because I am submissive or less demanding than a black woman. I have my own career, my own money, my values, and my hopes and expectations of any man, no matter the race. The assumption that ALL Black men date White women for whatever reason, or that ALL Black Women are this or that, is ridiculous. Ageism is something I deal with more in my own culture. I am just dating the men who pursue me, who have what I need for them to be. It is incredibly insulting to me as a white women for anyone to suggest that anyone dating me must be doing so because women of their race are more difficult, or demanding. Really? I believe most women, no matter what race want their man to be respectful, self-sufficient, and to want us. I have in my youth dated dead-beat men of both races, I have in my maturity dated men of respect, and value of both races. As an aside as a woman who at times seeks example, there are also women, of both races, I admire for their strength, dignity and grace. It also holds true that I cannot respect a person of either race who has to sell someone else out in order to justify their decisions.
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85kguy says:Posted: 07 Aug 09
Time to stop hating and start just dating. Don't get me wrong. I started out doing a couple of "drive bys" on women myself. The happened to be black women. For that I am sorry. From now on I promise to grow, listen and be supportive. One woman offered me peace after one of my "drive bys" I am taking the olive branch in order to make this a better interaction for other and to attract others instead of repelling others. I don't know what got into me!!
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Member says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Dear Ich Intellectual Negros tend to miss the big picture. They get their emotions and biases involved. He would have done well if he stayed on the academia part of his statements towards you. Again, many intellectual Negros leave out the "black struggling class" in their statements and sample population. I don't know why that is. To be successful in your field you have read into the statistics not just post them. Oh yea, be concise and get to the point. That is the hardest thing to do. I like the debate anyway. Ich you are a stand up guy. I will get in the mud with people. I don't care what your education level is. You have to convince to me your points are right.
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Member says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Dear Jordan Let me reply to your previous statements. You said this.... "JM: Thanks for partly supporting my point about "one having to read about Black culture..." However, the few Black women that you've interacted with could hardly be used as a foundation for making statements about "Black women as a group." Are you referring to Black women or African immigrant women?" I would have to say Black American women, which can include Caribbean women that have assimilated into American culture. I guess the foundation of just using "fellow black female graduate students" is the foundation for your hypothesis. What else you said "As a grad student I'm around plenty of Black female faculty and female Black students who do research, write about it, and discuss these types of issues. Yet, I wouldn't extrapolate these women's behaviors to the overall group of Black women." These black women you interact with are a small percentage of black women (fraction of a fraction of a percentage). If anything, my sample group is bigger. Since many black people do not go onto graduate school, those who do, from my understanding, are African immigrants and Caribbean black people. I could be wrong but I will be sure to look it up. Basically, talking to overachieving black women cannot be your only group sample. You also said to me LQ: Women naturally want to assimilate in a man’s culture. They try to mirror what you doing. If your white and Irish. Your woman would try to cook Irish food. JM: No, they don't do it naturally. They've been conditioned by a patriarchal system to act that way. The hyphenated last names of many couples indicates that "assimilating into the husband's culture is on the way out." Conditioned, However, you want to call it. Do they do it or not? You are speculating if it is "on the way out". You are also speculating on the patriarchal system as the reason. Perhaps women do it just to make the man happy (That simple). As a graduate student you should know better than this. By the way, I am not a graduate student. What else you said "However, I would convey that "Your woman would try to cook Irish food" is a rather sexist statement. There aren't any gender-based household tasks in my environment. Each person does whatever needs to be done. Whoever gets home first does the cooking....or we may go by a schedule." Sexist how, for blogs I can go off personal anecdotal stories. I am not writing a sociology paper. My woman is puerto rican and black, she tried to cook Jamaican food for me (she is rather bad at it). She insist on doing so. The black women I dated previously attempted to cook Jamaican food. They failed rather miserably. Perhaps you have a biased opinion about me because you dislike me personally.Again, you are using your "value system" as to no roles for either gender. I was raised this way, my father said the man takes out the garbage, works, cleans and pays the bills. I have rarely met a woman that didn't believe that, especially a black woman. As a grad student you should know better than this once again. Everything you wrote to me is subjective. It is like "why don't you be an activist like me" type deal. My lifestyle is my lifestyle. I don't imply for you to live my lifestyle. if I did, show me where I did in my post to you. Jordan you are a smart guy. You can't help being biased though lol. You got to work on that before you get that PHD. I saw something you wrote about genuine likability and the fetish statement I made. Again, that is my opinion. I don't have any data, I just throw things out there. It would be hard to tackle an issue like this because of our "personal experiences". Interesting debate. You have an academia point of view about this subject. I think I am well rounded because I am around all "types" of black women. I also have an academia background too. I don't want people to think I just focus on what I see "in urban neighborhoods I work in".
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Ichibod says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Mother Citizen, There are plenty of educated fools. Knowledge without wisdom is foolishness. I like that, "Educated heart". Take care! Jordan, A lot of what you say, most of what you say, has relevance to life and everyday human relations, I'll give you that. But as you probably can read from many comments on the various topics, no one cares. And I don't mean that negatively toward you, it's about them because they normally wouldn't read as much as you've typed or even others that type considerably less. Plus your comments are mostly, "Let me enlighten these imbeciles with 15 full-rotation Trackball swipes of uber-vernacular and superior grad school knowledge. Nothing of which has to do with any topic, specifically, and always quotes other bloggers in rivalry fashion as to say that no one but yourself has a brain. Just tone it down a bit. Trust me, Jordan, I've been there. Sorry if I offended you with the "Token" remark, but that's what all this sounds like to me. It's embarrassing to black intellectuals and this isn't the place for it. There are women who are turned off by know-it-alls anyway. Start your own blog. I'd probably read it. Thanks for the honorable mention!
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JordanMardan says:Posted: 05 Aug 09World Citizen: And I repeat, who cares about percentage? There are enough HUMANS in these blogs, looking for warmth and love, not mathematical figures. JM: To whom are you referring to: Azrazyel's 99% and .5 figures or my stats?
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JordanMardan says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Here's the article: The Great 'White' Influx -------------------- Immigrants Calling Themselves White Regardless of color, two-thirds of immigrants choose that designation on census replies. For some, it's synonymous with America. By SOLOMON MOORE and ROBIN FIELDS Times Staff Writers July 31, 2002 Zarmina Khalili says she never considered herself white until she moved to the United States 15 years ago. Race was a nonissue in her native Afghanistan, she said. There, the basic distinctions were tribal, between Tajiks and Pashtuns. Khalili knew where she stood: She was a Tajik. In America, it wasn't so clear. The census forms that came in the mail asked Khalili, 42, a Canoga Park homemaker, to place herself in one of six racial categories. She picked "white." Though she is fair-skinned, it wasn't entirely a matter of color, she said. She regarded white as synonymous with American, with belonging, with fitting in. In identifying herself that way, Khalili joined a growing number of newcomers who are stretching traditional U.S. racial definitions and-counterintuitive as it might seem-making white among the most diverse of demographic categories. The 2000 Census counted 28 million foreign-born residents. Two-thirds identified themselves as white. In 1990, half of the foreign-born population checked "white." Another sign of change: In 1990, immigrants made up 5% of all white Americans. By 2000, the foreign-born accounted for 9% of the white population. Latinos, the nation's largest immigrant group, are driving those numbers. Almost half checked the "white" box in Census 2000. "What white traditionally meant-the WASP, the blond hair, the California drawl, the Hells Angels motorcycle riders-is being overlaid with new images of white Russians and Armenians ... Iranians, North Africans and Latinos," said USC demographer Dowell Myers. "White is the most polyglot category, and it's morphing." Recent newcomers are expanding the meaning of "white" much as Southern and Eastern European immigrants did a century ago, when many Americans still viewed the word as signifying Anglo-Saxon heritage. The latest arrivals are also upsetting conventional wisdom, which held that the percentage of white Americans would inevitably dwindle over time. About 75% of the U.S. populace defines itself today as wholly or partly white. Many demographers expect the same will be true in 50 years, despite continued immigration from Latin America, Asia and elsewhere. "There's been this idea that demography is destiny and that America is going to be a nonwhite nation," said Peter Skerry, author of "Mexican Americans: The Ambivalent Minority" and a fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington. "It ain't necessarily so." Why do so many recent immigrants choose a white identity? White Means Inclusion For earlier generations, the value of doing so was clear. They were coming to a place where nonwhites suffered systematic discrimination. Even today, many immigrants say they equate whiteness with opportunity and inclusion. But a growing number, influenced heavily by Latino culture, say they see race as fluid and whiteness as an unbounded territory they can enter and exit at will. Yareli Arizmendi, a Mexican American actress, said she used to be typecast as "the gangbanger's mother" or "the excitable Cuban woman." So she stopped specifying her ethnicity at auditions. Recently, she landed the part of a Jewish lawyer on an episode of the television series "NYPD Blue." No one guessed her roots until she mentioned them to a hairstylist on the set. "I am a Latino," said the actress, who lives in Hollywood. "But I am white, too, and I don't want to be pegged as 'the other.' " In Mexico, where Arizmendi was born and raised, "we never asked: 'What are you? What percentage Negroid? What percentage mongoloid? Are you Latin American or Mayan or Aztec or European or Moorish?' " she recalled. "Because a lot of us are all of these things." Other mixed-race people are embracing a similar sort of racial flexibility, choosing white as their primary race. A 1995 federal schools survey found that 17% of the children with an African American parent and a white parent chose white as their primary ethnicity. Among children with one Asian American parent and one white parent, half considered white their primary race. In the past, people of mixed race were almost uniformly counted as minorities, not as whites. Even siblings with identical racial backgrounds sometimes make different choices based on personal experience. David Chau, 22, a student at the Rhode Island School of Design in Providence, has a Jewish mother and a Chinese American father. He considers himself white. "White fits me best, I guess," he said. His older sister, Jen, sees herself as a minority: Jewish and Asian. "I honestly don't know what white means," she said. "I don't know what a white experience is." Debate about racial categories and their meaning revives each decade when the U.S. Census Bureau asks American households about themselves. Changing Categories In the first national headcount, in 1790, government enumerators placed people in four slots: free white males, free white females, slaves, and "others," a category that included free Native Americans. Today, people fill out the survey themselves, choosing from six options for race: white; black or African American; American Indian or Native Alaskan; Asian; Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander; and "other." In 2000, for the first time, respondents could check more than one category. The census allows Latinos the most room for layered self-definition. Since 1980, the survey has treated Hispanic ethnicity apart from race, asking about it in a separate question and indicating that Latinos can be of any race. The Hispanic category is meant for people who trace their origins to a Spanish-speaking nation. The choices Americans make about their racial identities have far-reaching consequences. More than 60 federal agencies use census data to distribute government funds. State legislatures use the numbers in redrawing congressional districts. The Justice Department consults the census in looking for patterns of racial discrimination. Businesses base crucial decisions on the data, ranging from where to open stores to how to market soft drinks. In doing so, they give bedrock permanence to racial identities that may be ephemeral or subjective. People who pick Hispanic as their ethnicity and white as their race often are communicating that they feel "functionally white," said Ian Haney Lopez, a UC Berkeley law professor. For example, Latinos living in affluent, suburban parts of the Los Angeles area tended to call themselves white in Census 2000. By contrast, 50% or more of Latinos living in several of the region's urban barrios picked "other" as their race. The sensation of being white waxes and wanes, and not just for Latinos. Shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, FBI agents came to the home of Khalili, the Afghan immigrant, to ask questions. Her 15-year-old daughter was harassed at school. "Until Sept. 11, I just felt like this was my own country," Khalili said. "Now it's different. I feel like a minority." That same uneasy feeling might have shivered through an Irishman in the 1850s or a Slav passing through Ellis Island in the 1920s. Go back far enough in U.S. history and many Americans who see themselves as white could have been considered minorities at one time. To Benjamin Franklin, for example, "white" referred only to those of Anglo-Saxon descent. "Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes are generally of what we call a swarthy complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal body of white people on the face of the Earth," Franklin wrote in a 1751 essay, "Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind and the Peopling of Countries, Etc." Like Franklin, early U.S. laws regulating marriage, property rights, citizenship, voting and other facets of life viewed whiteness as a hereditary attribute. But the laws employed varying, often conflicting, standards for determining who had it. Someone could be deemed white for purposes of citizenship, but nonwhite under marriage laws-and thus barred from marrying a white. Between the Civil War and World War II, Japanese, Arab, Afghan, Armenian, Indian and other immigrants sued in U.S. courts, trying to prove themselves white and therefore eligible to enter the country, hold jobs or become citizens. National Identity Courts gave contradictory rulings. In 1910, an immigrant from India named Dolla was pale enough to convince one court that he was white. Ten years later, the Supreme Court ruled that another Indian immigrant was not. The unprecedented wave of immigration at the turn of the 20th century made the racial identity of newcomers a more contentious issue than ever, as traditionalists declared the national identity under siege. A 1911 congressional commission sought to quiet the controversy by cataloging the identities of the immigrant flood. It issued a "Dictionary of Races or People" that put Slavs, Poles, Italians, Russians and others in 45 nonwhite racial subgroups. This prompted intense opposition from immigrants, especially Jews, who were placed in a "Hebrew" category. Many immigrants feared ostracism if the dictionary's distinctions became policy or law. Ultimately, the government discarded the categories. People with diverse origins came to be seen, and to see themselves, as white. Mexican Americans became part of a similar debate as the United States expanded west in the 19th century, absorbing sizable Latino populations. After the end of the Mexican-American War in 1848, census enumerators counted people with Spanish surnames as white. That practice continued until 1930, when a separate "Mexican" racial category was created. Mexican Americans successfully lobbied to have the designation dropped in 1940. Once again, enumerators classified virtually everyone with Spanish surnames as white. The discrimination visited on African Americans gave immigrants a powerful incentive to be identified as whites. "They were coming into a society where slavery was synonymous with skin pigmentation," said Joel Perlmann, a senior scholar at the Jerome Levy Economics Institute at Bard College in New York. "It had nothing to do with preserving their own culture." In the expansion of whiteness, African Americans have remained conspicuously apart. They are the group least likely to intermarry with other races and most likely to live in segregated communities and attend segregated schools, according to census and other research data. "Everyone else has taken their positions in relation to that duality," said Noel Ignatiev, a history instructor at the Massachusetts College of Art and author of "How the Irish Became White." "Everyone can assimilate into white America, except 'homie.' " But some scholars say African Americans' historical exclusion spurred them to a powerful political and cultural unity. The solidarity they achieved during the civil rights movement of the 1960s is being emulated today by Latinos, said Todd Boyd, a USC pop culture professor and the author of "Am I Black Enough For You?" "We took those crumbs and transformed it into a distinctive culture," he said. Even African Americans who could "pass" as white because of their appearance or cultural background choose not to, Boyd said. "Now there's no reason to shy away from it-it's ours." Latinos have adopted a similar strategy, but with a twist, said Arturo Vargas, executive director of the National Assn. of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials. "To the extent that being white means being American, we are white," Vargas said. "But at the same time, we don't have to deny being Latino as much as before because we've had a significant civil rights movement, and politically we're still one bloc." The question "Are you white?" puzzles many second- and third-generation Americans. Many say they simply don't think about it. "Whites live in a society that was created for them, that caters to them, where they are the norm. They fit," said Matthew Kelley, publisher of Mavin, a multiracial affairs journal in Seattle. "So to a lot of people being white is almost indefinable. It's just this kind of comfort that you don't recognize unless it goes away. It's like describing air." Disturbing Definition When whites try to define whiteness, they often find the experience uncomfortable, even disturbing. "For me, being proud that you're white is like some kind of Nazi thing," said Tom Radu, 43, a general contractor from Monrovia. Radu is of Swedish and Romanian ancestry and is married to a Mexican American woman. He describes their 19-year-old son as a "whitesican." Jim Stewart, 49, who works with Radu, remembered an odd conservation with his father about race. "I told him: 'You're half-white and half-Sicilian,' " recalled Stewart. "Like a half-hour later, he came up to me and said with all seriousness: 'I'm pretty sure Sicilians are considered white.' It mattered so much to him that he was thinking about it all that time." Some whites yearn for a more distinct identity, in effect seeking to go back to a time before their families joined the mainstream. "For many white Americans, white is not enough-there is no unifying white experience," said Diena Simmons, producer of a 23-episode PBS documentary titled "Ancestors." "They want to say they are Jewish, or Polish, or Ukrainian or something like that." Last year, the Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation opened a Web site listing the names of 22 million immigrants who arrived in the Port of New York between 1892 and 1924. The site (http://www.ellisisland.org) logged 1 billion hits in its first month. Bob Nafius, a San Diego computer executive, was one of the teeming masses at Ellis Island's virtual port. Within minutes, he found his Irish great-grandmother's passenger record showing that she sailed to New York from Liverpool on a ship called the Oceanic. "Growing up in the San Fernando Valley, white meant suburban, being connected from mall to shining mall. That whole white-bread kind of thing," Nafius said. "But I always wished I could have a real ethnicity. I'm looking for a tribe to join. Don't I get a tribe?" (end) Although I agree with most of the article, within the context of both the title and content, what is wrong with the following: "They are the group least likely to intermarry with other races and most likely to live in segregated communities and attend segregated schools, according to census and other research data." I also believe the article sheds some light on many of the issues in this thread and many others.
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Austrian says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
This is me - an EXPERIENCED FEMALE - reporting from nursing homes in Europe and the U.S. (smile, who really know me!!!) It's been said and proven: BLACK WOMEN HAVE A L L OPTIONS! Certainly, women want to look up to a MAN and expect to receive that same respect. Why should these BLACK WOMEN settle for less? It takes a wise, sensitive MAN with an educated heart, to love and admire BLACK WOMEN for who they are, where they came from and what they had to go thru to make it here. They are much more than the sex object, desired by ANY of you men. You males, who educate your hatred in these blogs and have nothing worth while to offer - as well as you, thinking you can impress black women, behaving like a pseudo intellectual - and you, who yet have not learned where and how to educate yourself on black culture and BLACK WOMEN - YOU DO NOT STAND A CHANCE TO GET PICKED BY STRONG, BLACK WOMEN! I embrace ALL EDUCATED HEARTS and touch your DELICATE SOULS THANK YOU for your constructive support on these blogs.
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JordanMardan says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
azrazyel: Thank you for your comments and support. Like I said, I am here to learn since this is the first time I am dating out of my race. Yes, there are many things I have to learn, and I need to prepare myself for the obstacles I may face when that time comes. JM: Thanks! Now if only Ichabod Crane would "pull his nose" out of it.
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JordanMardan says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Laurelton Queens 5 August 2009: I don’t know what this argument is about concerning black culture to date a black woman. JM: If you don't know what it's about, then why are you replying to it?! LQ: Most black women do not discuss black culture with any man. Trust me I have been with quite a few. You would have to define what is “black culture”. JM: Thanks for partly supporting my point about "one having to read about Black culture..." However, the few Black women that you've interacted with could hardly be used as a foundation for making statements about "Black women as a group." Are you referring to Black women or African immigrant women? As a grad student I'm around plenty of Black female faculty and female Black students who do research, write about it, and discuss these types of issues. Yet, I wouldn't extrapolate these women's behaviors to the overall group of Black women. LQ: Women naturally want to assimilate in a man’s culture. They try to mirror what you doing. If your white and Irish. Your woman would try to cook Irish food. JM: No, they don't do it naturally. They've been conditioned by a patriarchal system to act that way. The hyphenated last names of many couples indicates that "assimilating into the husband's culture is on the way out." But even before that change, many marriage counselors were telling potential couples to "explore and discuss their differences about their religious preferences, etc....in the United States. I don't know the culture of your particular geographical location. However, I would convey that "Your woman would try to cook Irish food" is a rather sexist statement. There aren't any gender-based household tasks in my environment. Each person does whatever needs to be done. Whoever gets home first does the cooking....or we may go by a schedule. LQ: Most black women talk about JM: More stereotyping. LQ: To be honest with you, many of my friends don’t really talk to their wives and girlfriends like that if you been together a long time. If you really sat down and thought about it. How often do you even talk about your woman about anything relevant. JL: We do discuss issues, etc., quite often....since we're both activists, volunteer in the community, etc. LQ: My typical day is “you cooking breakfast”? She like yea. I got to go to work 8 am. She says “you taking out the trash”. I grumble and say “later on”. She says love you bye. I said “sure”, finish work , get on the internet. Relax and read my blog. She asks me some dumb question. I ignore her and then she asks me “what you want for dinner”. I say to her “oh I will get chinese food”. Go to bed. There is a little more that goes on like checking mail, errands and stuff. She is on the phone more than we talk personally. JM: Seems to be a rather boring lifestyle. And what are you doing while she's on the phone? Posting messages to this forum and others? Neither of you are attempting to communicate with the other. LQ: I guess some black people want to make white men guilty by just making up shit. Even if a white man went his whole life never knowing what part of Africa is black wife came from. I don’t think that would change the way she feels about him and vice versa. JM: As I wrote initially above, "If you don't know what it's about, then why are you replying to it?! This tells me a lot about your previous posts to these forums. LQ: It is rare for me to stick up for a very small segment of white men. A majority of white men have a “curiosity” or have a fetish for black women. I think that is bad and hurts black women. JM: Hmmmmmm. Would that be parallel to azrazyel's "payback" statements, in that something else is driving the relationship instead of genuine likability?! My God. I didn't know that White men would do such a thing. :>) LQ: I really don’t believe in white men calling other white men racist on this website. JM: That would certainly contradict the statement someone made a couple of months ago about "White people not arguing among themselves in these forums, wouldn't it?! :>) Your statement indeed supports an earlier statement I wrote regarding "Whites are not being very truthful."
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Azrazyel says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Jordan: Thank you for your comments and support. Like I said, I am here to learn since this is the first time I am dating out of my race. Yes, there are many things I have to learn, and I need to prepare myself for the obstacles I may face when that time comes. Thanks again. Peace
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Member says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
I don't know what this argument is about concerning black culture to date a black woman. Most black women do not discuss black culture with any man. Trust me I have been with quite a few. You would have to define what is "black culture". I am Jamaican. Unless you can cook Jamaican food and understand my Jamaican sense of humor. It is not mandatory. Women naturally want to assimilate in a man's culture. They try to mirror what you doing. If your white and Irish. Your woman would try to cook Irish food. Most black women talk about their nails, hair, the bitch they hate at work. They also talk about "what you plan on doing with her". How was work, shopping and if their car is working. It can be real superficial with some black women. Their are black women with big degrees and college education. They tend to be superficial after awhile too. They can hold their own in a conversation than they fade. I like a brainy black girl even though I am not engaged to one. To be honest with you, many of my friends don't really talk to their wives and girlfriends like that if you been together a long time. If you really sat down and thought about it. How often do you even talk about your woman about anything relevant. My typical day is "you cooking breakfast"? She like yea. I got to go to work 8 am. She says "you taking out the trash". I grumble and say "later on". She says love you bye. I said "sure", finish work , get on the internet. Relax and read my blog. She asks me some dumb question. I ignore her and then she asks me "what you want for dinner". I say to her "oh I will get chinese food". Go to bed. There is a little more that goes on like checking mail, errands and stuff. She is on the phone more than we talk personally. I guess some black people want to make white men guilty by just making up shit. Even if a white man went his whole life never knowing what part of Africa is black wife came from. I don't think that would change the way she feels about him and vice versa. It is rare for me to stick up for a very small segment of white men. A majority of white men have a "curiosity" or have a fetish for black women. I think that is bad and hurts black women. The white men that are arguing on here actually would like to be with a black woman. I really don't believe in white men calling other white men racist on this website.
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JordanMardan says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Azrazyel, If you want to learn about Black culture, google the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture: http://www.nypl.org/research/sc/about/index.html
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Member says:Posted: 05 Aug 09
Azrazyel: First off, I don’t appreciate being called racist or even considered racist. FAR from it. Click on my pic and read my profile. How could I be racist if I am interested in black women? White racist/supremecists hate ALL blacks. Not me! JM: Heh heh heh!!! So?! "Being interested in Black women".....is NOT an indication that one isn't racist....although many Whites frequently say/write such words. Many of the statements you have written in this thread just "drip with prejudice" or "racial" ignorance. If you don't want to be called a racist, then stop writing stupid stuff like the crap I'm responding to. But it's good that you're disclosing these beliefs in order that we can seek to educate you. Azrazyel: I am here to learn. That’s part of the reason why I am interested in black women, not just because they are beautiful etc. etc., but also because I want to know the culture of the black people and have a better understanding for myself other than what I may already know or perceive. JM" That's great...but you aren't going to learn about Black culture by just dating a Black woman. It all depends on "what type of Black woman you date." Is she bi-cultural or totally assimilated into mainstream culture, meaning she doesn't read any Black magazines, books by Black authors writing from a Black cultural perspective, attend any Black cultural events, etc., etc., etc. You'll have to read about it. Just dating someone to learn about a culture is faulty reasoning....because no one person embodies ALL of Black culture. Two, members of "minority" (the preferred term is People of Color) groups live a bi-cultural existence (and some Whites do, too...to some degree). Many conform to the dominant group's ways of doing in order to get jobs, etc., but then revert back to their cultural background when engaging in personal activities, such as preference for church attendance, music preference, etc. Three, both the dominant and dominated cultures influence one another. I can think of tons of things that originated in various parts of Black culture...and then went mainstream. Azrazyel: I have reasons for my perceptions and opinions, I come from an area where interracial couples is rare, therefore I perceive differently. Maybe some of you live in a mixed environment, where interracial couples are more common. JM: Geographical location may play a role to some degree, but ultimately the individual person is responsible for how he/she thinks, etc. For example, there are many Whites who were born into very racist families, but are now not racist themselves. How did that do that? By venturing beyond the restrictions imposed by their families, i.e. reading about and interacting with members of different groups. Azrazyel: I stand by my opinions because I base on what I see, not what I hear i.e. internet, radio, tv. JM: "Based on what you see"...depends on a lot of factors. You cannot be an armchair sociologist. You need to read about the "reasons behind people's actions" rather than simply *casually observing* various groups of people and then making a conclusion....which is one of the primary problems of this forum and/or this thread. For example, the statement "I’m glad white men and women are not on here ......each other" doesn't tell us a thing. As I wrote earlier, I see plenty of White men and women arguing on other sites." However, the main reasons you don't see that is 1) a thread hasn't been started to delve into the issues encountered by White men and women, 2) White men and women have not had to deal with the same historical & contemporary issues that impact the lives/relationships/thinking of People of Color, 3) would the passive communication style of most middle- and upper-class Whites permit them to engage in such a discussion (would the most representative style of poor whites permit participation ?), etc. Hence, you cannot attribute the reasons "for the behavior" and "lack of the behavior" to individual people. Two, you most certainly cannot use the "most representative communication style of your group to judge the communication style of other groups." The "armchair sociologist" approach seems to be the way that most White researchers, journalists, etc., interpret data they've gathered on Blacks and other non-White groups. For example, an article published a few years ago titled "Immigrants Calling Themselves White" briefly included a segment about "interracial dating/marriage." (I will post it later). The writers simply reviewed some "interracial marriage" statistics and then JUMPED to the flawed conclusion that "Black women are the group less likely to date or marry outside of their group." Why did they write that? Simply because the stats of "Black women and men from other groups" had the lowest numbers. Pure armchair sociology. Azrazyel: I will continue to think that black women only date out because of jealousy of black men doing it first. I still see it as desperation, and I still believe most white men don’t want a black woman. I’ve been asking lately my friends and friends from work what they think about interracial couples. Some I’ve heard are too explicit to explain, so I will refrain from saying so. Others preferred Asian (mainly) and hispanic. I go by what they are telling me. I know that isn’t based on all white men, but I think it’s few that would pursue a black woman, again for many reasons. Azrazyel: Too much garbage whereas I see on this website helps to prove my points. JM: That's stereotypical: judging the behavior of an entire group of people (40 million in the U.S.)...based on the "behavior" of 8 or 9 Blacks in this forum. Yeah, right. Using your reasoning, should I judge all Whites based on what I read about the 926 White supremacist organizations in America?! Although I'm using 100 times the number of examples as your "8 or 9 Blacks"....it still wouldn't be any more correct to attempt to extrapolate info about White supremacists to the larger White population than it would be to use "8 or 9 Blacks." The reason I placed behavior in quotations marks above is to indicate that "I don't necessarily view the behavior in the negative light that Azrazyel views it from. As I've written umpteen times, "You can't use your cultural ways of doing things as a barometer to evaluate or criticize other cultural groups' ways of doing things." If you're going to embrace the principles of diversity, then you shouldn't be doing this. Azrazyel: No white man wants a woman who is desperate, and is NOT looking for love, but for payback. JM: I pity the Black woman you might end up dating/marrying....because she'll eternally have to prove that she's "not with you to payback Black men." That's such a ridiculous notion. Two, I could just as easily write "No Man of Color wants a White woman who is desperate, and is NOT looking for love, but for payback" to Whites for kicking her out of the White group. Who are the White women who have been "kicked out" of the White group?! White women who are known to racist (conscious/unconscious) Whites to have slept with or dated a Man of Color. It's amazing how many Whites will not live in a house or even buy a vehicle...if they know it was previously owned by Blacks. Real estate agents will often tell Blacks selling their house NOT to leave any pictures of the family, etc., in the house during inspections by potential buyers. So don't tell me that this behavior doesn't exist. It has been well documented. Azrazyel: Some I’ve heard are too explicit to explain, so I will refrain from saying so. JM: I'd like to see some of those examples...or would your posting of those words indeed indicate just how crude some Whites can be in their thinking of Blacks while simultaneously being kind, tender, etc. to other Whites?! I see so many Whites who view themselves as charitable, kind, etc., but the way they treat members of non-White groups is anything but. Why are Whites so blind to this behavior?!
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renee24 says:Posted: 04 Aug 09
I love chris but i both agree and disagree with his comments there are various reason a person dates with in their race and outside it's up to you no one else. I love jaquentin comment if you put your heart into someone it really doesnt matter,we are all capable of the same thing…LOVE!!!!
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Azrazyel says:Posted: 03 Aug 09
Comment by sdf: "1.i don’t date for the purpose of diversity. 2.i date white girls..i’m white.it’s calle.d preference.i date people of my own race cause that’s what i’m familiar with and comfortable with..i’m not missing anything by not dating black or other races cause i don’t date for the sake of being diverse.i date who i’m comfortable with and attracted to." Good points sdf. It's a complete understanding that not all people are going to want to date a different race. You stay where you feel comfortable. Everyone has their preferences and choices. Peace
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sdf says:Posted: 03 Aug 09
1.i don't date for the purpose of diversity. 2.i date white girls..i'm white.it's calle.d preference.i date people of my own race cause that's what i'm familiar with and comfortable with..i'm not missing anything by not dating black or other races cause i don't date for the sake of being diverse.i date who i'm comfortable with and attracted to.
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fire321 says:Posted: 02 Aug 09I agree with tatted2death...enough is enough. I personally believe that some people come into the blogs just to intentionally aggravate other members and honestly don't expect any backlash. It's ridiculous and childish. Words are just words and if you don't give them any power, they mean nothing. Outside of these blogs, most or none of these people have an impact on our lives and to let them THINK anything that's said means something to you is only making you sink to a lower level. I may not totally agree with everything anyone says on here but most make some very valid points even though they may be said in a rather harsh tone. L. Queens, Ich, tatt, bigeyes etc., keep doing your thing. I enjoy reading your posts. Lastly, if you don't want any commentary on the things your post, don't air your laundry here.
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tatted2death says:Posted: 25 Jul 09
I second MsZ's sentiments here.....It is truly sad to see people tear each other down. As much as I have had words with certain characters here there is no ill-will. I enjoy the creative/expository writing flex (As Ich pointed out) and there is much humor in much of the exchanges that I take part in....but all this other "malarky" is just plain ridiculous. And while I don't condone alot of the tactics used here (by various folk) I do understand the core need to defend yourself against negative stereotyping and flat-out "character assasinations". Like it has been expressed before all the "threats" and name calling are just too "school-yard" for me. While I am observing quietly now I still hope a MEANINGFUL dialogue continues here. Peace and Blessings tatted2death
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Malarki5 says:Posted: 24 Jul 09
Bro Itch & Queens, I take you points. I shall leave well alone as of NOW! Menelik Charles London England ps nice to see you again Bro Itch.
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Malarki5 says:Posted: 24 Jul 09
Peanut said: Just smack yourself. You left racist tire tracks behind you with that last post. who care what you think? Menelik replied: girl, you don't date Black men (because they don't want you) and you come on here 'debating' Black men. Why? Go away! Ignore us! Make no mention of us! Never! Ever! Again! Stay in the white community and max out on all things white! Leave us alone you lonely-assed troll! Menelik Charles London England
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Member says:Posted: 24 Jul 09
Dear London She is obviously upset she was a failure at her marriage. Broken Down Lisa Raye (might be related to the other Lisa Raye). She is angry at everyone but herself. Take responsibility for your failed marriage. Don't blame his mother. You are a pathetic individual. Stop trying to take away everything your ex husband worked for. I bet he has to pay for the Lawyer that you hired to divorce him. You make me sick!
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Peanut says:Posted: 24 Jul 09
To menelik - Just smack yourself. You left racist tire tracks behind you with that last post. who care what you think?
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Ichibod says:Posted: 24 Jul 09
When I viewed her profile months ago, I was only looking at her pictures. I didn't care to look for anything else. My comment that she quoted makes that clear. I didn't even notice her age. His race DOESN'T matter. The fact that she feels black men are so terrible as mates and her marriage to a man of a different race didn't work is what makes this so hilarious and so sad at the same time. I don't rejoice over failed relationships, not even abusive ones. Because the abused probably hoped for better in the beginning and the children (if any) don't understand and can be negatively affected by them. Menelik, I even thought your comment to her was of well regard and best wishes. It's time to just let this thing go. Not many are talking, but everyone here sees this. And they also see us apart of it. I'm starting to catch a bad name in other topics for continuing this fiasco. I'm over it, brother. Good to see you again, by the way!
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Malarki5 says:Posted: 23 Jul 09
Menelik asks: Just out of interest, can you tell me WHO controls and operates “the white media”? Who is that is spreading this notion that Black women are not attractive? White women? Peanut replied: You may have hit the nail on the head right there. Take a look at the credits in any movie or tv show in which you see a bw character that is stereotypically unattractive in some way and notice the name of the people that did the casting. when the director asks for a bw the casting director send a pile of head shots and videos. The casting directors do the initial selecting and the director makes the final choice. Menelik replies: casting directors do NOT control the mass media, madam! My point is that white men control the ebb and flow of negative images of both Black women and men...the enemy maybe faceless but we know his race. Thing is, I don't sleep with them lol Menelik asked: are you still here, Peanut? I thought (hoped) you’d get a nice white boy, move to the burbs, have your own bi-racial kid, comb its wavy black hair, glory in its complexion, and leave Black men the-hell-alone! Peanut replied: That’s precisely what I have done you potato. You read enough of my posts to generate resentment towards me but somehow missed the idea that I’m not looking to date bm. Menelik replied: I tell ya what, lady, you are certainly physically attractive but I very much doubt most intelligent Black men would want to date you considering what nastiness resides in your heart! I find you absolutely awful, really, I do! Sadly, there are far too many Black women like you who are more MAN than WOMAN. Rightly, you have figured out that it is Black men who don't want you! You are most certainly NOT missed! Menelik Charles London England
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Member says:Posted: 22 Jul 09
Listen Broke Down Lisa Raye Stop worrying about my fiancee she is black and puerto rican. What defamation of character are you rambling about? Listen go to the post office and figure out where those divorce papers are located. You mean to tell me you can hire a Lawyer and sue us for the shit you said to us. But you have no idea if you are divorced or not! You are a loser!
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Peanut says:Posted: 22 Jul 09
Okay queenie, You are just insane. You need meds. You never answered the question (conveniently) WHO is this mystery man I committed adultery with? You must think divorces happen overnight. They don't they take lots of time and people move on in the meantime. (LEGALLY) And defamation of character is illegal even on a public blog especially if you are going to remove material from the one I entered and alter it on another. And your fiance is not black, she's mixed so there you are lying again.
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Member says:Posted: 22 Jul 09
This is clearly getting heated. Let me calm down. This woman is really getting on my nerves. She got the nerve to call us misogynists and women haters. Last time I checked, I wasn't 'in the process" of getting a divorce and sleeping with another woman. Let's distinguish that right off the bat. Your cheap tactics don't address what you are. You are doing adultery. Instead of admitting you was wrong. You jumped out the window and accused of us of shit you can't prove. We pointed out that you are so in love with white men and you can't even stay married. How that equate to us hating anybody. I only date black women so how I can hate them. You got lawyers and all this shit. Yet, you claim to love a white man. You are making his life harder. Obviously the divorce is not amicably. Yet, you want to step to me like you are "better" than everybody else. I don't know much about divorce. The fact you are waiting for paperwork to mailed to the court. If it is not getting done then follow through on it. Who married a 'bubble head" like you? I would call you worse names but I am restraining myself. You should be the last to talk about who hates who. Clearly, you hate this man enough to hate his mother. Momma's boy or whatever you claim he is. The man made the commitment to you that should count for something. You can sit here and "try" to make yourself look like the victim. I am not the sucker who is going to marry you. I really don't care. Have a nice day.
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Member says:Posted: 22 Jul 09
Pulling MsZ17 to the side Listen, I don't have any hatred towards black women. I am engaged to black woman. I ain't had to mail any paperwork to the courts that explains how my marriage failed to any white judge. I live a different lifestyle than some of these people here. I don't have to make excuses as to why I am sleeping with someone and my marriage ain't over yet. My passion can be misconstrued as hatred towards women. This is how I come across. I don't apologize for it. (Leaning in my chair). I ain't tell her to throw her business out there. She did it and then "tried to beat back the flames". Ich called it perfectly. If a man is in the middle of a divorce and he sleeps with another woman. He is not looked at favorably. That is just common sense. That is the difference between me and "other people". I don't blame people for my problems. Broke down Lisa Raye defending white men and she can't even keep her marriage together. On top of that, she blames his mother for the marriage falling apart. Now she is making useless threats about her lawyer seeing people. She also said this "Ich get a hold of yourself quick because I can direct my lawyer at YOU next" I wonder if she knows if she is on a public blog. Is she implying she is going to sue somebody? The woman is not too bright. She makes some weak excuse like " Should I have remained single". You should have closed your legs until the divorce is final. She doesn't even know what adultery is. Let me put the definition of adultery in the room. "Adultery is the voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and another person who is not his or her spouse." She is still technically married and she is dropping her panties for another man. I don't really care if you don't like me on a personal level. I stick to the facts. Case closed
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Peanut says:Posted: 22 Jul 09
Queenie and ich. You both are astounding in your stupidity. I really can't even believe it! You are simply conjurers of fantasy. You make up stuff and react violently to it. The fact that your venom is even stronger now that you know I'm married to (divorcing a wm) signals your heightened sensitivity to it. THIS IS WHAT I STATED in my earliest posts. His color shouldn't even have inflamed your comments like this anyway. YOU took a look at my profile yourself a long time ago so you saw that I was divorced (I thought we'd be finished with it by now but they often take a long time)so you must have assumed I was married to a bm, now you're the one "tripping" I only even mentioned it because you wrote: (Tell me why, after all these years, none of your white men have proposed or married you?) YOU assumed they hadn't (because THAT is what you WANT) And other people have had issues with how you get things twisted, they were just smart enough to give up trying to communicate with as if you had a fully functioning brain. Queenie wrote: (Your so quick to jump with another white man with money that you dropped your panties quick.) WHO is this person you are referring to? And what makes you think MONEY was even on my mind when I got married? You are both just trying to vilify me because you can't sit still with me or any other black woman "moving on." Your language is immature and vile and you can't even see that you are just woman haters. (I want to just make fun of you from now on, maybe invite some friends over to read your posts, then record myself reading your comments in some doofus voice and post it on YouTube with your picture) Ich get a hold of yourself quick because I can direct my lawyer at YOU next. That is exactly what I've been talking about all this time. You two are the nasty type of bm that hate bw and don't want them to be happy. You hate women!! You are a misogynist! ANY man that wants to hurt women emotionally is a WOMAN HATER!! (Where have you not said anything derogatory about black men on the grounds of bragging about yourself and your infatuation for white men?) YOU ARE DREAMING...Wake up! I have spoken only about the way they treat bw in general,and, too often for MY tastes. When have I bragged about myself? You are projecting your evaluation of me ONTO ME once again. I have never tried to hurt any men on this post ever. I am trying to shelter bw from this kind of abuse. (You should have seen those “momma’s boy” issues long before you went to the Justice of the Peace. I know that’s where you went. If you’re sleeping with a man that soon, that’s disgusting.) I was in love like you should be when you get married so my vision WAS clouded. At least I took the leap and made a good effort. YOU just backed out. Justice of the Peace? Are you saying that we had a cheap wedding? What is WRONG with you? Who, again, is this man I'm supposed to be sleeping with. How could it be disgusting you foolish man? When two people are separated and have begun signing paperwork, it's over! You can and SHOULD move on. You have no reference for how long we've been separated nor if I'm even sleeping with anyone so WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU BOTH ON!? (So, it takes a court order to tell a woman when to open and close her legs now? Pathetic!) Talk about creative writing. What?! What I said means that once you are separated (on that day)any sexual contact you have with someone else is NOT considered adultery. Somehow you two microbes decided (for yourselves) that I had slept with someone during my marriage or directly afterwards. Both completely untrue. And both of you seem to be convinced that if you make some negative/"clever" comment that makes it true. I think they call that the Jerry Springer poetry effect. (Then you claim he ain’t “mail you the paperwork”.) My god this is what I wrote: "he and his lawyer are having a hard time finding their way to the post office to mail off that signed paperwork to the courts." TO THE COURTS, TO TO the courts. How did you manage to stay alive this long.
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MsZ17 says:Posted: 22 Jul 09
Ichibod, thanks sweetie. It's disheartening, really it is. I don't hate anyone and I certainly don't hate black men - my father was a black man, after all. I am a member of the Black Universe because of him. He wasn't the best dad, but he wasn't the worst either! Saying someone is superior just because of the color of their skin is ignorant and slave-like. I won't take mistreatment from ANY man. Not ALL black men are bad and not ALL white men are good. The same goes for balcka nd white women. Did I really need to say that? Sheesh. All I say is that we should all keep an open mind about people whether you want to play or are looking for love. I'm 58 years old and I could write a book about some of my experiences with men here in California. However, I keep hope alive, as Jesse would say. lol
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Nikkay87, I feel everything you're saying, but my question is why don't more women who feel as you do realize that many black men feel this very same way as well, and try to team up with them? The black race in America is divided and has been for over a century. However we're forced to believe that the divide is gender based. I don't subscribe to a black man using black women as his excuse to date a woman of another race. And I can't stand black women doing to same for a man of another race. My hatred for a black woman doing it is because when she does, it almost always is a white man versus any other race of man that she has forsaken black men for. It signals more serious issues than just the previous black men in her life that is wrong with her and the same goes for the men who have forsaken black women. We as black men and women should listen more to each other speak and see that we are saying the exact same things only replacing the words "brotha" with "sista", man with woman when we do speak. This is not man against women. Like Chris Rock said, "There's a war going on between Blacks and N****s." There are men and women on both sides. That's also why I get so offended when I hear some statements about black men. I know which ones apply to me and ones that don't. I know which ones apply to others and I am not trying to be confused or mixed up with others I don't care for and I have no time for mistaken identities and stray bullets. Men need to engage other men in regard to their conduct and women need to do the same with other women. It can go the other way around but looking at some of the comments in the topics of this site's blog, that doesn't go too well most of the time. Also, I myself know what it's like to be "the token". And having so much TRUE knowledge of black history and being I am not black? What's that about? Believe me, that didn't come from black people. That used to come from the n****s.