Warning: The article below may be offensive to some readers. This is not the objective. It is in no way meant to defame or inflame any parties, groups or persons.
Here’s a little to learn from Michelle Obama
Most of us have fallen for our first family, the Obamas … such a universal picture of love. This has even become something of an obsession, especially for quite a number of professional Black women, with many getting excited about the likelihood that they could find their own Obama. Some would give up anything just to meet a man like him.
One thing most women must realize is that Michelle didn’t meet him the way we see him now – all souped-up and successful. He was once broke and goofy … not the Black Prince Charming ideal many women would die for. Do you think these women would have looked at him in the same idolizing manner then?
We all know the well-worn narrative that the dating world is hard for Black women who want to date Black men that match them in academic and career success. Thing is, whenever the professional Black man comes along, there is always that big ‘BUT’:
He is intellectual but nerdy…
He is ambitious and focused but not social enough…
I am looking for a successful tall and hot man; not some pint sized nerd…
He’s hot but dances like he got two left feet…
And just like the rest of them, another Black man ends up being tossed right into the ‘friend zone’.
Many Black women want their own Obama. But if Michelle had adopted the kind of attitude above, then she wouldn’t have been the first lady today. Here is what we women (not just Black women) can learn from her:
Michelle saw past the goofiness, brokenness and big ears … she made the choice of straying far off the superficial and focused on an abundance of goodness Obama had. So if Black women are to defy statistics (that 45 percent of black women have never been married, compared with 23 percent of white women) then they need to be more realistic. Not to say there aren’t any perfect men but seriously, what are the odds of meeting a rich Havard scholar with the swagger of a rapper like Jay-Z and a baby face? If you are looking for a G like Tupac, chances are he’d be in the hood … not Havard.
My point is, if you are seeking to have a great relationship with a good Black man, they aren’t all taken. There are so many of them around. All you need to do is borrow a leaf from Michelle and see a man for who he really is and not what he has or how he looks. I am not saying you entirely give up on attraction coz it can’t be faked. Instead, be a little open minded … analyze your ideals. If Obama was given the chance of love way before gracing the covers of magazines countrywide, maybe more Black women might just find relationships they could believe in, if only they could dig deeper for men’s unseen potentials.
If Michelle had held Obama to presidential or some other superficial standards, would he ever have had the chance? Stop sizing up a man’s checkbook by his lifestyle. You might be shocked to find that the guy buying rounds of shots has maxed his credit card and the one having some $2 beer is worth a lot. Just coz a man has money don’t mean he’s gotta flaunt it.
Best advice I have read so far is from the article “Five things to consider before the next man passes you by” :
“Single women should avoid using Barack Obama’s résumé as a job description for a position they’re trying to fill or treating their next boyfriend like a prospective applicant … So if a man … meets 83 percent of your criteria and you still let him pass you by, just keep that in mind when the next Michelle Obama gladly takes him and his corporate, grad school-impaired game off your hands.”
And how about eliminating the not-into-other-races ‘BUT’. If a guy fits the cut, he fits the cut – Black, White, Latina, Asian… Hey ladies, more often than not ‘less than perfect’ is perfect enough. There are so many good men out there. All you gotta do is open your microscopic eyes and you will see past their nerdy, goofy, broke (… fill in the ‘BUTS’…) selves.
To: Miri2008, TanSexyHot21, Nandi, dolly48, rarestgold, Vanillalvr–THANK YOU ladies! Well put! I got so heated that I did not read all of the comments before I posted, and I still haven’t really. So for ALL of you who took issue with this VERY biased article–thank you.
I would like to say to NOPLAYER regarding your statement about the men at your workplace who accused black women of not knowing what we want and when we did we wanted too much. OMG! Wait, let me stop moving my neck (just kidding–another stereotype). Wanting too much!! Oh, heck yes I want EVERYTHING. Not only do I WANT it, I DESERVE it, and I will settle for no less. That said, I’m going to give everything to the man who eventually becomes my next mate. I will give my heart, body and soul to him and love him to the very depths of my soul. Now if I can do that, why can’t he? You go back and tell those brothers they need to rethink that point of view. It is people like that who never really find true happiness with their partners because they are always thinking someone’s out to take them. Only when you are willing to open up and give your all will you ever be in a position to receive it anyway. I do know this–I’ve had it before and I’m never going to expect less. I LOVE myself!!!
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Here we go again!
Never have I sugested a BW take care of some lazy ass BM or any man for that matter.
Somebody please help me on this one. Most of the women on this topic stated that money or material things were not the main focus in a relationship, as long as a man treated them right and acted like he had some sense.
I’m now hearing comments like, “bringing as much to the table as me”, “he should already have it together” and “I aint waiting for him to grow up”, so is it unreasonable for me to think that money and material things are the main focus when deciding if a man is worthy of your selection as a mate.
I can’t help but get the impression that some ladies on this blog equates a man’s maturity by how closely he matches you in income and if he doesn’t, he aint grown up yet or he aint got his shit together.
If that’s the case, then this type or thinking is twisted and it will not get you far in your search for true and everlasting love.
I know deep in my soul that this is not the thinking of all BW and I’d hope no one thought I was implying that it is.
Peace
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@ takinitall
You stated: “I still love to hear your responses, but they are a little hurtful on this blog, especially since your wife is German. What does your wife’s ethnicity have to do with anything you ask? The comments you are making can be taken as negative towards BW, thus implying your wife was easier to get along with and thats why we are single. Maybe some BW really hurt you, but be thankful God has sent you someone for you. Understand that we BW desperately want what you have, someone to love and cherish”
First let me say thank you for your reply, and ask you would my comments be taken as negative if I was married to a BW or if I was gay?
My choice to marry who I married was just that, my choice and it was not because of a fault or short-coming I found in BW. All women are easy to get along with as long as you cut the grass when they ask you to. LOL
The only BW that have hurt me were the ones who beat my ass as a child for acting up(bless their hearts).
I can say I’m the man I am today because of the love and support I received as a boy growing up from BW just like you, so please don’t think I was being disrespectful or negative towards BW because this not were my heart is.
I love BW and I want to see them in loving and stable relationships that lead to marriage. I was only pointing out that there are policemen, plumbers, soldiers and constuction workers out there that are capable of being loving and devoted husbands, they don’tmake as much as doctors or lawyers but their capacity to love and respect you is no different.
“Your future husband is out there and he’s looking for YOU!”
Best wishes in your search for LOVE!
James aka No Player
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party1
Strengthen and promote my man, huh? Well actually there is alot of men who objects to be “handled” and feel they are strong enough to walk their own walk in life (ups and downs). Most men actually want your believe and confidence in them, more so than jump in and guide them through… and I support that and would be supportive in those terms….
I prefer a man that is established in his career, confident in his goals, a good moral compass, one who doesn’t makes excuses for his shortcomings, but realizes he has them, strength is knowing your limitations in life and we all have them…
prncess4ever
Shame on you! Don’t give up! I think you are attractive…You should list your profile of multiple site. I wish these blogs were more germaine to the objective of this site and not alot of race-baiting and stereotyping BS. But, I tell you when I first posted on this site, most was basically looking for a sexual relationship as oppose to a relationship…To the point that I turned my email off and it is still off…But, I did find one persistence person and I decided to give it another shot, we have been dating for nearly a year…I have a girlfriend on this site, so I check in and post from time to time…You are not a troll, but there are some on here that definitely are trolls.
Initially, when I first signed up, I was overwhelmed an disappointed…But you will weed through the losers to find the winners and honest ones
I could write a parody on some of emails, I received…But they were atleast entertaining.
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@ prncess4ever
Unfurtunately in our male-dominated society, historically all women were taught that they have more value as a woman if a man confirms them as a woman.
As a result women learned that in order to feel sucessful they had to attach themselves to a sucessful man.
In blk culture we’ve been taught that appearence is everything and sometimes this teaching can cause us to think more of those who look good than those that would be good to us.
So “looking good” and “walking in style or “high stepping” came to be a respected characteristic in our community.
Traditionally this stlye was a associated with religious and spiritual people who refused to allow life to beat them down, so they walked with their heads held high, almost to the point of looking arrogant.
Somehow we got it twisted and began to associate this spiritual reality into a material one and “looking good” became related to name brand labels and material value.
As men we began to value women based on their physical looks and women rated men based on our incomes. Sad to say it, in the blk community, money and self-worth or so directly connected and we start to esteem ourselves and other based on how much of it someone has.
Historically BM and BW have had much of nothing and only eachother, so how have we reduced ourselves to being so supperficial when it comes to how we deem someone worth as a mate.
We got to this point by imitating the behaviors of other people, internalizing their values and adopting them as our own.
prncess4ever you have the right spirit: “But never will I conform to what others idea of what they “think” a black woman should be.”
I admire you attitude!
Peace
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NoPlayer I come to your defense with a certain ignorance of an average white guy to black history and black culture,understand this please.My black interaction includes wealthy with mansions,middle class in the suburbs and ghetto/low income.Each family step stoning up a class or remaining the same for a generation.Those that strived,achieved and accomplished millionaire status were not born into money.I personally never met a 3rd generation wealthy black woman.
So that said I believe the age of the above posters and many b/w that are percieved as selfish golddiggers are just tryin to keep up with the Jones and pass the Jones up.
As the black community evolves and doors and opportunities have opened it is more noticeable the climb to success.There are so many different type priorities as to what is wanted and needed as far as clothes,cars and houses.
I personally will not eliminate a woman from consideration because she didnt have a car or house or degree.A woman that is there for me when I most need is much more valuable to me.A woman that values love ,life,people,nature and knows God is my choice.If she has attained success ,,thats great but its not my deal breaker.So as I say age is a factor I also believe that many b/w are on a mission to keep that upward climb and will forfeit the qualities of a GOOD man.Perhaps if he is not an equal in some area she deems important he would be eliminated from consideration.
Its hard for me to imagine some of the above b/w posters to say that they would marry a burger flipper if he was good to her.My thought about less of a life style is that whatever you the b/w have acheived and have attained will be the same even with the burger flipper you just wont move up the ladder faster with him.Whatever you have now you will still have.
All races have thier achievers but the race/rush in the black community will peak at some point and level off.I dont know if there are more than normal goldiggers in the black community but I am thinking that any woman that eliminates a GOOD man that she is attracted to because of what he doesnt have is cheating herself.
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ALL, CAN WE HAVE SOME COMPROMISE HERE?
@No Player.
I believe that I hear what you are saying. I believe your intentions are simply to indicate that as BW we should expand our horizons, realize that we all are flawed, and understand that all of us, BM included, are in a constant state of growth – some being more evolved and further along the path than others.
@ the BW who have responded to the blog and disagreed with ‘No Player’
I believe your points are that you have created good lives for yourselves through your own efforts and are just looking for a male (black or otherwise) who has done the same. I believe that you inately understand that there is no perfect male (black or otherwise, including President Obama) and that people, in general all have issues with which we need to deal (if we are truly enlightened enough to recognize and acknowledge them). I believe you are simply saying that a potential mate should have strived for something for themselves of which they can be individually proud and which enriches them as a person first, and a potential mate second.
@All
Please forgive my presumption if I have misspoke for either side in my comments above. However, I feel as though both sides are closer to the middle of this subject than they realize. The ultimate ideal that I hope we all share is simply to find a way to heal and repair the gap between men and women (particularly BM and BW) in our relationships so that two parent families become the norm rather than the exception. I believe that America’s fascination with the President and First Lady has its basis there – the two have found a way to make what they share as a husband/wife, as a mother/father work in a way that is easly obvious to the average onlooker. After all, isn’t this what most of us seek, anyway?
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Let me preface this post by saying I’m not saying ALL PEOPLE FEEL THIS WAY!
It’s no secret that many of us BW are angry with BM. Just understand that it’s because of the ones we run into. Angry may be a strong word, but we are frustrated! Our frustration comes from us being forced to lead and the stress that comes with it, when our men are sitting back doing nothing. Even the most independent women want to submit to their mate.
I don’t think any BW would turn a guy away because he hasn’t been to college. But we are going to turn you away if you can’t support yourself. A man who “has it together” means different things to different people. For me if you live at home, have bad credit and a poor work ethic/ history I am not interested in dating you. Now to me that’s not being materialistic, that’s being responsible. I feel if he can’t take care of himself, how can he take care of a family. He doesn’t have to make more money than me, but he has to do something. I also do not date men who drive flashy cars, but live in an apartment. To me that means your priorities are not aligned with mine. Cars depreciate once you drive off the lot, but homes accrue equity and provide stability. I applaud the ladies who turn these guys away including myself. You never know it may motivate him to work on himself before seeking a relationship. Women need to do the same, men are not super man, they can’t do it alone. There are still good ones out there, we just have to find them!
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Prncss4ever wrote:
“If I came to this site to meet and attract a partner of another race, then why are most of the posts negative about the inter racial lifestyle? It took me a while to garner up the courage to post a profile, but I’m beginning to think I’ve made a mistake. Nobody ever contacts me anyway, so once my membership is up I’m not renewing. I know I can’t be that much of a troll where NOBODY finds me attractive. Nonetheless, I wish the rest of you good fortune and blessings and hope you all find someone wonderful and live happily ever after.”
Girlfriend I was feeling the same way and don’t allow your experiences here to cause you to doubt your beauty girl!!! Black women are often known for believing in our beauty even though not often the “industry standards” and it saddens me to hear you talk that way about yourself and I don’t even know you! Hell, it took me a while to post my pictures and a complete profile too! Exactly who the heck is running this site anyway???? Almost ALL of the blogs criticize or attack in some way blacks–mostly black women!! None of the blogs address the concerns in the OTHER races. I have dated white men for a while now and I have serious concerns that I would like to discuss with other black women that I have found while dating cross-culturally and there are never any articles about understanding their ethnicity better or a forum to discuss things. And sometimes the articles make it sound as if black women are the damn root of all evil or something. Black women are often the ones that struggle the most, and have carried our race single handedly on our backs for centuries with being left to raise our children solo and sometimes other people’s kids too. I was often the ONLY black at my school growing up that had a daddy living in the house!! Honestly, I remember during my slumber parties my daddy would often check into the Grand Marquis Marriott down the street because some of my black playmates were “uncomfortable” with a man walking around the house freely!!! Not kidding!! But black women are being vilified–how could WE of all people continuously be at fault?????
And Prncss4ever don’t be put off by the lack of contacts, I only get contacted by men that only want to have cybersex, “pal” around on the phone, men that are 40 but looks like they have been “rode hard and hung up wet” for an eternity (and these are the men that always want a Naomi Campbell, Tyra, or Liya Kebede look alike LOL!) or, men wanting to experiment, and some still living with their parents!!!!! What!?!?!? Goes to show that men of ALL races are capable of mediocrity when it comes to women. And to the site administrators, what is with some of the profiles that men have on here?? Some of the profiles I have read almost sound as if the guy is a bigot…..Does a live person read some of the insulting things that are said about sistas on some of the profiles that are on this board? You know, black women/white men date outside our races the least of all the groups so WE really need a friendly, relaxed forum to explore relationships. What man of any color would want to date us with these types of articles on here, and what sista wants to date a man that has profiles that are offensive???? And to all of you guys that perfer a certain type of look in a sista (darker skin/ethnic features, medium, light, skinny, full-figured, etc.) that is quite alright because I prefer tall slender, Germanic types myself, BUT JUST INDICATE THAT ON YOUR PROFILES SO WE ARE NOT BOTH WASTING ONE ANOTHER’S TIME….because I guarantee you if I know you have a preference for tall, dark chocolate sistas I will not waste your time with a rose flirt seeing as though I can read and comprehend! And can we PLEASE get a Forum tab on here to post questions and concerns for intelligent discussions like the one going on here???
Sorry for going off on a tangent… the more I read these posts the more comes to my mind–not to mention my VPs are being real jackasses today.
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Takinitall, Nandi, Dolly48–kudos for your recent posts!!! You three lovely ladies are definitely my new BFFs!
No Player, I give you some credit though–I admire how you are in this discussion trying to hold your own all by your lonesome. [Notice I said "trying"]
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Princess Forever,
I am saddened that you have decided to withdraw your member from the site. I would like to take issue with one of your comments ha you posted.
“It took me a while to garner up the courage to post a profile, but I’m beginning to think I’ve made a mistake. Nobody ever contacts me anyway, so once my membership is up I’m not renewing. I know I can’t be that much of a troll where NOBODY finds me attractive.”
You are a very attractive with a great smile. Howver, I would like to point out that if your interested in someone you have to go after them. If nobody ever contacts you then make more of an effort to contact them. Strike up a coversation and see where it goes with someone, but just dont sit around waiting for someone to cntact you. You have to be proactive in seeking what you want. Remember many times people are on this site while they are at work. Thereofore they might not respond to anyone while working if they are busy.
Some people leave the website on and then respond to it days later. Their are plently of good guys on this site out there for you. However, you just have to be a little more aggressive about what you want. If you are looking for a certain type of man then then everytime you see that man online who fits your descriptin log on be aggressive about contacting him. The woman who gets to the market
early get the freshest and best fruit. The woman who sleeps in late gets the leftover fruit none of the other women want OR NO FRUIT AT ALL. Be aggresive and go get your man lol..
Most importantly and I cannot stress this enough many men lose interest in online dating because women are not willing to escalate the online chat to an actual meeting within a reasonable time period.
I recently read a story about a woman who lived next to a guy in the same apartment complex on the same floor as the guy she ws chatting with. When they met online the woman actually insisted they chat online for a few months before they could atually meet in person in the hallway of their complex lol…. (To men, women like that present a red flag that she has issues and we will move on). Transalation= If you meet a guy online start figuring out a meeting plan that is reasonable or the guy will lose interest and began focusing on oher women who are rational and actually making an effort to meet. Men dont like the crazy train to nowhere will get off at the first stop for a more sane woman.
I hope this convinces you to stay and givr it another shot.
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Party1 I was asked why Jay-Z was not a role model to me. I am not sure where the Obammas come into my response about Jay-Z. I simply stated facutal information that I would not support a man who was responsible for exploiting the people o his NY community though the sell of drugs as a role model as I also stated that I would also not supoort a man who makes his money off producing music glorifying the destruction he did within the African Americans community through his drug and gang affiliations. I do respect yourrot Jay-Z as I am aware that their are many people who still support men like Pablo Escobar, John Gotti, Frank White, or other men who made their money through drugs and gang violence. This is their right to do so, however; I was asked my opinion about Jay-Z and explained why I felt it would be morally wrong to accept donations from a man who makes his money of destroying the very community he is donating too. If you are open to accepting donations from thee types that is your choice.
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Noplayer,
I am a bit confused at exactly what the ongoing disagreement is about. Can you giveme some insight as to where you 2 differ in your viewpoints regarding the difference of opinion.
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Elliot,
You provided great advice to “Princess Forever”…so my question to you is.. why give up?
Just give the membership a little more time and be more aggressive with finding exactly what Elliot is looking for. But I do feel your concerns, so far in my 2 week journey, I’ve found a lot of “Imposters.” They say one thing on the profile and mean another.
Don’t give up.
Shotgun007
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I think we’re missing one significant aspect here that affects women’s proclivity to date men who have the same or more than them and men’s proclivity to date women regardless of financial status – DNA. No matter how modern and evolved we have become as human beings, we still maintain gentic DNA markers from hundreds of yers ago. Wwomen have a genetic marker to date someone who is doing well financially because men used to be the ones who left the cave and brought back the food. Men have a genetic marker to date someone who is attractive because they needed women who had the figures that could bare children and cook all day long. Evolution hasn’t caught up to the intellectual changes in society. Evolution hasn’t caught up to changing those male and female genetic markers the same way evolution hasn’t caught up to removing excessive hair from the noses of people who used to live in sandy, desert areas or adjusting the skin color of humans who have lived outside of their ancestors original climate for over 400 years, etc.
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Hi,I have to say this was a truly heated conversation. I have to say if this is a interracial dating service, so be it, if people want to use this for same race dating, go for it. The bottom line is at the end of the day, the people whom are here to truly meet that special someone,really doesn’t have time for arguing with other room members. I have been contacted by both black men and white men, who have been really nice to me. I have been talked to with respect and I found that to be just what I expected. I think BM telling BW, what they want, needs to stop!Why not ask her what she wants? Let her answer. The problem with our community is there is racism, which still exists in the black community against each other.If someone is light skin, or dark skin shouldn’t matter. Many different races have come together to meet. Let’s stop fighting with each other, and get back to what we came here for….meeting someone to fall in love with. I have dated different races, but I have to say, some of the dark skin men, have walked past me because he wanted a red bone, or a white women. I don’t care about this, but if you see me with a man from another race, don’t get mad, because you weren’t interested anyway. This is like a dog with a bone, he doesn’t want the bone, until another dog comes around.MMMMM I have had BM ask me several times if I couldn’t handle a real man, because I was out on a date with a white man. This is silly we should date people whom make us happy. I am not bothered if a BM is dating a WW. I see this all of the time, but times are changing, BW are doing it too. Let’s be happy for one another, in hoping we find the mate, whom is great for us. Take care everyone.
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I think takinitall’s last post perfectly summarizes and brings most of our arguements full circle and I could not have said it better!
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This post is typical as are many of the responses. IMO President B.O. and Michelle were not a good examples for this post. However, I wanted to say that I am very impressed at the women who are unashamed in admitting that they have standards and refuse to lower them.
Women should always marry up or at least mate at their own level. No explanations or justifications are needed. I would never marry someone who earns less than I do, had less education, and who came from a lower class tier than myself.
I think it is poisonous and dangerous to encourage women to marry men with whom they do not share any common life experiences or values. A loving blue collar man should seek a loving blue collar woman.
There are ample quality men in the global village who understand this- so ladies don’t ever shortchange yourselves.
There is a more balanced, nuanced, and serious discussion on this very topic being held at the link below that many of the BW posters may enjoy and benefit from reading:
http://interracialloveandspicebysara.blogspot.com/
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@ M. Elliot
I LOVE your new main pic, it’s super cute. I never realized how fine you were, until you changed pics.
@ Shotgun007 & No Player
Yes, No Player is married and he posted that on his profile. I have mad respect for No Player as I haven’t seen any of his comments or profile state or imply that he wanted another woman. Not everyone here is looking for a relationship. I personally hid my profile to take a break from dating, but I LOVE the blogs. Please respect him and everyone else here and not cast stones. You are a very pretty lady, but negativity is not attractive. Plus No Player is my partner in crime and allways has something to say. We can learn alot from him, if we really listen. Yes his comments hurt, but take them into consideration the next time you meet a man.
@ Everyone else
Let’s try to stay positive and open in our dialougue. I understand the struggles many of my fellow BW face in finding a mate, but don’t be discouraged. Let’s face it, being single really sucks and is very lonely. No you don’t need a man to validate you, but you do need a man to complete you (work with, support and love you).
@ all my fellow single women
I personally joined a singles group and really enjoy it. The group has numerous activities and events. Check around your city there may be some kind of singles group there as well. I also volunteer at alot of community events and meet lots of nice men. Another great avenue to meet people is take classes on something that interests you. I am learning to ride a motorcycle this summer, so you know the men are there. Bottom line is get out there and do something positive and productive; and your mate will come. Too many of us are stuck in nightclubs and church (which has become the new nightclub), when our partner may be under our noses. My last suggestion is fix yourself up. I know my confindence goes from 0 to 60 once I break out my sun dress, hills, shades and switch when I walk. Believe me men, like the girlie girls so take pride in being sexy and keep your feet done (Not only for cosmetic and hygeine, but you’ll be amazed at the number of men with foot fetishes). Plus it’s summer break out the hot pink nail polish, gold sandals and strut like you’re the shhhhhhhhhh!
I’m sure I’ve pissed somebody off again, but I still love blogging with you guys!
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@ Shotgun007
I enjoy participating on this blog, I’m not window shopping and I’m not keeping my options open!
@ TanSexyHot31
Lord knows I’m “TRYING ! LOL
I understand that people will not always agree with eachother but it’s all about trying to understand eachother’s point of view and I’ve done just that.
@ takinitall
I’ve always agreed with you that women shouldn’t settle for a man that’s not productive and has no motivation to progress in life, on that much we agree!
I think if more women had held men to at least the basic standard (stable employment, having his own place and paying his own bills)some of these men would not have went as far as they’ve gone in trying to live off of women.
You’ll always have these sorry asses out here looking for a “second mama” and sad to say it, you’ll always have women out there willing to be a “sugar mama” to these clowns.
takinitall, by all means uphold your standards, I aint mad at cha! Just like you and many of the BW on this blog, I aint got time for games, I got dreams to turn into reality and places to go.
I’ll see you on top of the mountain!!!!!
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It seems to me (note, before you write and beat me up, I said “it SEEMS to ME) that a woman being materially comfortable sparks one of two responses in a man who has less materially: i) His (natural) male instincts of being the hunter/provider is violated, he is uncomfortable, and either tries very, very hard to catch up with the woman materially, or he gives up and tries to pull the woman down because he feels unable to catch up to her; OR ii) His (natural) male instincts of being the hunter/provider is not functioning, and he settles down happily to enjoy the ride
This is my reason for trying to stay within a commonly shared socio-economic status (note: this is my head talking – I have had my heart kick in and ‘poof’… lol)
I stuck with my individual experience and perspective to make a point. Black women are not a vat, basket, pot, container, crate, barrel, of some undifferentiated ’stuff’. We are individual people with divergent perspectives, experiences, and yes, even histories (a topic for another blog). There is an alarming tendency to simplify things to give ourselves the illusion of ‘control’ that the feeling of having ‘comprehended’ or ’solved’ something can bring.
The truth is that we are on an evolving journey which is moving faster than stats can be collected, and is more meandering than can be casually observed.
So maybe we just accept that we are all in this amazing experience called life, with a myriad of possibilities still to be explored. Maybe an encouraging blog about sisters who found someone to share life with is in order. Enough with the dire proclamations of blight upon black women. I personally reject all of that negativity with a vengeance.
Miri
P.S. Yes, some of you recognize this as a post from a prior blog… hmmm… I wonder why this exact response fits here just as well as it did in the prior blog…
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Cocoa: You hit the nail on the head when you said you want a partner with ‘substance’….often we’re confusing substance with ‘wealth’ or ‘financial security’ or even ‘independence’
Here’s a wee scenario to consider:
An attractive (you know it’s not me now lol) middle aged man, a local community leader, respected…with post graduate qualifications and a stable professional job earning $75,000+ ends up divorced due to a marriage breakdown with faults on both sides…
…he foregoes his share of equity in the family house so his kid can stay in the same neighbourhood with friends and go to a good school…he pays over and above what the courts set for child maintenence cause it’s his child…but as a result has to share a house with 3 others, and struggles to pay the bills each month…at least until he get’s some debts cleared.
…does he have ‘substance’?…is it ok for him to expect a future partner to help ‘keep’ him for a while?…would you give him a chance..?
PS: As for the previous comment about diamonds coming from coal – coal may not be that valuable or nice to look at at, but it does provide plenty of warmth and energy and here’s a lot of woman out there deserving of that!!
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Great scenario yoyo99! I have actually experienced something similar. Unfortunately, it was too much for me to bear. I met a great guy who sacraficed the equity, paid half of the mortgage on the ex’s house (was married 10 years and paid the whole thing and as part of the divorce has to pay half for 15 years), great father (in addition to his $1800 month child support paid full tuition and bought the oldest a new car), credit was shot due to ex maxing out credit cards, had to rent a room and had a great job. I personally could not see myself with him, because it was too much interference from the ex. Many men confuse being a great father with being a fool for a woman. This particular guy did not go to court for his divorce instead went to a mediator and agreed to everything the wife asked for. After hearing about his arrangement, I did the math she will only have to pay her mortgage for 5 years on her own. Oh the best part is she also got citizenship as a result of their marriage and admitted she used him for it. I feel as parents, you have to work together for the better of the kids. His ex did not pay anything except utilities as she moved her new boyfriend in to pick up the other half of the mortgage. After he paid all of the ex and children expenses he barely had any money left to do anything. As a single mother, yes it would be great to have someone bear the finances for my kids. As their mother I would not want their father to struggle when I can help with the kids. As a woman dating I am looking for my husband! I don’t mind my husband helping and taking care of his kids, but there is a way to do anything. I am not willing to inherit anyones STD (Sexually Transmitted Debt).
My second experience was even crazier. I dated this guy who had 3 kids when we met. Every weekend he had all three of the kids and appeared to be a great father. Well being the woman I am, I started my background investigation to see who I was dealing with. I quickly discovered he owed $125000 in child support, all three of the mothers were on welfare and the youngest child was possibly not his. Of course I asked him if he knew about the child support and he said yes their mothers have other kids and needed the welfare for them. When I told him about the youngest; this genius told me she told him she was pregnant a week before she had the baby and the baby was pre mature, but they sent the baby home with her. Not foolish enough yet. I liked this guy so much I offered to pay for a paternity test for him and she didn’t have to know. I encouraged him to do this soon or else he will be stuck with a bill he may not have to pay. His response was she wouldn’t lie to me she isn’t like that.
Ok now I’m telling all my business, but I can critique myself as well. Everyone I date must pass a background check before moving on to the next level. Call it crazy, but I have kids and they must be protected. Too many people lie about their pasts and I can’t afford to be caught up in nothing. Second I personally am not willing to take care of another womans household. Yes, I want a responsible partner, but I also want a smart one. I feel men need to take care of whatever they have going on with their ex’s before moving on. If you are not in a situation to have a family, let women know up front to avoid issues. Everyone’s situation is different, but I will “keep” no man including my husband. I come from a male dominated family and was taught very early that if a man loves you there is no limit to what he will do to keep you. I also believe that men and women should have some skill or trade they can hustle to make extra money. For me I sell houses part time in addition to owning my consulting firm. I have been very blessed and thank God everyday for my blessings. Why is it that women are able to make a way and swallow our pride to get what we need, when men make excuses! I see so many mothers in the food bank lines, applying for any job they can get, selling themselves and anything else they can to make ends meet for their kids.
I am not a millenium dater. Maybe a more liberated independent woman can handle “keeping” a man, but not me. Subtance to me is being responsible, positive values and morals, belief in God, strong work ethic and understand that his wife is his first priority after God. Not saying the babies should suffer, but he had to draw the line somewhere. I don’t know where your guy lives, but $75000 is more than enough to do what he needs to do. I’m sure he’s not paying $5000 in child support and since he sacraficed the equity he’s not paying anything on the mortgage. Therefore he should have some money left over to do what he needs to do. He should see a financial planner not a girlfriend!
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@ miri2008 — You make a valid point and that alot of men(not all) have problems with women that are materially comfortable and most of thoses problems have alot to do with HIS feelings of inadequacy.
These insecurities that men have are the result of measuring our worth by the size of our wallets.
Here’s one for you; what does society call a married women that earns less than her husband? A wife!
What does society call a man that earns less than his wife? They call him a bum or a loser!
We’ve also allow society to define who we are by what we do for a living. Have you noticed when men meet eachother after exchanging names, one will ask the other, ” so, JIM what do you do for a living?”
It’s like the verbal, who’s penis is bigger contest.
It’s so sad that we carry this madness into our relationships and we end up having the same contest with our women.
I’m sure it’s a turn off when a woman gives a man a chance, only for him to start with that old “she makes more than me drama”, when he knew she made more from the start of the relationship. LOL
I once told a friend that had these same issues, “your wife is your companion, not your competitor and stop trying to keep up with her, hold her hand and walk with her!”
“CONFESSION”
Being stuck on stupid damn near got all of my shit thrown out in the front yard (LOL) and those words of advice kept me at home and out of a singles apartment.
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I wouldn’t – he just isn’t my type that’s all… – even at his so called “latter – sexy stage in life” – I am sorry.. he doesn’t do anything for me. I sort of see the appeal.. the charisma and I was proud to see him sworn in as President BUT…he does nothing for me…
With that said, I am a little disturbed by this article which potrays Michelle in a less than flattering light – what do you mean “she saw past his goofiness, brokeness and big ears”? I don’t think that has anything to do with it. I mean.. cammon?! like seriously? Sure we all have standards and preferences as far as what we find attractive – but I don’t think that when Michelle met Barack… she did not think “he has big ears but I can overlook that”? cammon now?!
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@Takinitall – thanks for sharing your experiences with us and teaching us something – much appreciated (and respected).
At this point I have had only one on-line dating experience turn into a real life dating experience, and I sure learned the value of a background check then. I can assure you that now, there is zero chance of me allowing someone that I meet on-line any substantive access to me or my life prior to a background check.
Just want to pass on to all a very good site that I found on helping people to make a safe and sensible transition from on-line contact to real life dating:
http://www.onlinedatingsafetytips.com/GettingStarted.cfm
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Yoyo99 made a good point in clarifying the difference between substance and wealth.
Morninflower, I agree, the “he has big ears” portion was a bit of a stretch.
All in all, I think any of you women could simply substitute Obama for whatever man is your type and ask the same question posed by the author of the article.
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Sure, bring it on the usual suspects—I mean, anyone, and their cousins can feel free to insult black women-
This is by far the most derogatory and racially biased article I havr come across on this site—-who set the standared that black women must be measured based on how they compare to white american females—obviously some are ignorant of the cultural differenced between black american and the white females
Ok, Mitchell is supportive of her man and so are millions of other not- so famous black females–(supporting and sticking by their men even through imprisonment)-Instead of seeing mitchelll as representative of millions of black females who for generations have demonstrated unwavering support for the black brothers; she is instead seen as an exception—possessing characteristics unlike most black femalesg but similar to those of the always innocent, pure, angelic, never do wrong white american females—-
OMG–I am so emotionally outraged that I can hardly articulate my thoughts!!! May God have mercy on people who use articles such as this to promot their racial biases.
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@ takinitall
Sexually Transmitted Debt (LOL), now that’s a first!
I was always taught as a young man that you have to be able to look after you and yours. It seems these men made the big mistake of not having some “JUST IN CASE MONEY” put up somewhere.
Often times a divorce can clean a man out financially, so he should have some money put up somewhere so he wont end up back at home with his parents. He could use this money to get back on his feet because without it he’ll be in a world of hurt.
I think every man should have a RECOVERY PLAN, I know marriage should be forever but that’s not guaranteed. The courts will look after the women and the children(if they’re any) but the man must look after himself?
Credit and background checks sound like a good first line of defense because now days things and people aren’t always what they seem. It’s sad that it’s come to this but you have to look out for yourself.
takinitall, in the words of the late Barry White (in his soulful and deep voice), “You got it it together baby!”
Peace!
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A long long time ago ; I was just an Old Piece of Coal -
Became a ” Diamond ” due to this site / Believe
with time all things can Happen .
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No Player I am so in agreement with your last post from 29 July!!!! Right On Man!
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The majority of society will always judge a man by how wealthy he is and judge a woman by her beauty. I don’t know many women who want a broke husband or many men who want an ugly wife. Sometimes our choices may not be based on our own feelings,but our insecurites. We can care to much about how people percieve us. We might pass up a good man because if we take him to meet friends and family and he can’t answer that important question” what do you do for a living? ” with an impressive career we might be afraid that we look desperate and are settling. I don’t think that applies to most of us here, because we go against societal norms by dating whom ever we like despite their culture. I am hoping that the majority of us do not have an agenda; I like men, all men, not just black or white ones. Personally, I am a character person. My man doesn’t have to be rich, but he has to have integrity. We can gain wealth together and buy things, but I can’t buy character for you. I guess I can look past money because I am a victim of many stereotypes and misconceptions based on my physical appearance. My outside does not match my inside. People assume I am all about vanity or gold digging just because most people think I am attractive. They never bother to find out what I have to offer or what kind of person I am. I guess that is why I can see past a man’s low income. I am more concerned with what kind of steward he is with what God already given him. I would have been all over Obama! I love a smart man!
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You know it’s sad how marriage has changed. I hate to say both men and women have to protect their assets. I don’t have much, but I’m sure not going to loose it to anyone. One of my friends is getting married to a financially secure man who everyone loves. He asked her to sign a pre nuptual agreement and she got upset and refused. She feels he’s allready expecting the marriage to end and doesn’t trust her. I tried to explain to her that he’s just trying to protect himself. If the shoe was on the other foot what would you do? I pointed out that she has 5 kids (none of which are his, but he takes great care of them), only makes $3500 a month, leases her car and lives in an apartment. Of course I pissed her off after all that. But I explained to her, be thankful that God has sent you him. As women we want it all, but if you did not work with him to acquire those things don’t try to take them. Remember, pre nups are only for things acquired before the marriage. If you really want your marriage to work, you must work with your partner to acquire things together. I love No Players advice “your wife is your companion, not your competitor and stop trying to keep up with her, hold her hand and walk with her!” that goes both ways.
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noplayer – Thanks for steadfastly holding the obvious truth up for all to observe, in such consideration.
Women – Come on, get real: The vast majority of women look to men’s careers and incomes as qualifications for dating. Pretending this isn’t so is as silly as pretending men don’t notice women’s breasts. Common keywords women use in profiles for types of men sought are “successful” and “professional.” I could fill this blog with justifications women have used with me about this particular attitude. It’s a rare and highly sought-after woman who looks past this. As noplayer has shown so well, it mainly hurts the women with this attitude: By focusing on $, they have not only lost out on many wonderful men but have also lost focus of the fundamental things that matter in life and the qualities that make for a truly happy lifetime together.
Would making a life with a man who doesn’t earn as much lessen a woman’s standard of living? Of course. Does a high standard of living really buy happiness (Advertising professionals aside, please.)? I’d take a car-camping trip with a woman I share a deep love and common passions with over an exotic trip to a place I’ve longed to visit, with a selfish woman, any day. This is what it really boils down to: Selfishness. That’s precisely the opposite attitude necessary for happy longterm romance.
Most men accept this naturally when they look for their mate because they understand while money makes life easier, it does not make or even fundamentally improve happiness. Most women, in their relatively new chance of financial independence, have yet to learn this. Some of the many dangers of this attitude are:
* When the couple is experiencing the inevitable hard times, the expectation of money making happiness will set them up for fundamental problems and unhappiness.
* The implied insult to the person in the couple earning less (probably taking care of the family) is an awful burden in the relationship, creating an inherently unequal and damaging dynamic. Women are familiar with this attitude from men insulting their integral role in the family on the basis of not earning an equal amount.
* Focusing on who earns more in the relationship destroys most positive synergies and rewards greedy selfishness.
We’re synergistic as a couple and are not best as two individuals with the same attributes. Fundamentally and quite obviously we’re different. The support and love we have for each other is so very empowering: This is what noplayer is speaking about. It’s a beautiful dynamic.
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Oh, one last thing: This approach requires two self-aware, highly and openly communicative and very generous, honest, selfless and loving people. It’s not for everyone.
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@ laugh-sailor
Well Said
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surprised
I agree, you must be reading my mind!!
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laugh_sailor
I think it is just to much thought put into “what makes a relationship works”…I never brought into that relationship/marriage is hard work…Shouldn’t be if both are committed to each other..Should be relatively easy.
However, let’s be real…everyone have a basic criteria on who they are attracted to…Personally, I am most attractive to intelligence, integrity, character and a moral compass…But, on the physical..I do require physically fit, well-groomed (doesn’t have to be suit and tie though).
Most people who have these qualities are not irresponsible in their personal lifes or financial lifes on the average.
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Yoyo, perhaps that man does have substance; perhaps he doesn’t. This community leader should not expect a future partner to “keep” him. He needs to get counseling, because a counselor would tell him to clear up all his baggage and debts from a previous relationship before bringing them into a new relationship. I, personally, would look at the entire situation analytically and see how forthright he is. Does this guy want to date a woman interested in just fun or a woman dating with intent for commitment? A guy in this situation probably does not even want another long-term relationship resulting in 2 or 3 more kids. He is probably just looking for casual sex and light-hearted fun, so he should let the woman know this up front.
Secondly, what do they have in common? People should forecast the future and date according to what they have in common with the person they like. I know plenty of women who have dated below them financially who became miserable when things got serious. When it was time for the woman to take time off from work for pregnancy leave or child rearing, they struggled immensely because of finances. That destroyed the relationship. I also know women who have dated up who are miserable, because the men are either busy all the time, condescending, or very self-absorbed. I’ve noticed that couples with a lot in common usually work out better. Women tend to want commitment and security. Men tend to want looks and fun. I know numerous women who would not mind dating a man who has less financially, but those men don’t want them because they are overweight or not that pretty.
Secondly, what judge ordered that situation? Any therapist would tell those parents that they both need to provide a quiet, private situation for those kids when they are visiting the parents separately, because children interpret privacy as security. Visitation is extremely important. Are the roommates having sex with their girlfriends at night when the kids are spending the night? If they don’t visit the father, is he going to stay with the ex-wife when he visits them?
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Laugh_sailor, hello by the way. Just curious, have you read most of the women’s posts on here?
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Surprised – Thanks! You wrote a perceptive piece that shows your caring thoughtfulness and I enjoyed it!
Nandi – Terrific point! That’s been my thought also, that two people striving for the greater whole of their life together ought to just flow easily. I’m glad to see others think so too! Chivalry’s a great base for relationships, isn’t it?
Cocoacutie – Beautiful, clear thoughts! Right on about it all.
TanSexyHot – Yes, several times, carefully. While it’s a bit confusing due to multiple posts, here’s my count: 11 money-neutral women posting in this blog and 6 money-focused women posting in this blog. I gave positive votes to those not obviously negative. That’s a lot more mature than I’ve personally experienced and it’s a very good sign. I would think this is a bit biased, though – How many would speak up and proudly proclaim “I’m a gold-digger!”
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Cocoa:
‘HE is probably looking for casual sex and light hearted fun…’
maybe that’s because when he meets a woman SHE’LL probably be looking for someone to use as an accessory ????
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@laugh-sailor
Thanks!
I agree that a woman will not admit when she is a gold-digger, but I am sure that eventually the man she is dating will figure it out. More often then not, these women wind up treated like a spittons and thrown away.
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@ laugh-sailor
Thanks!!
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sorry! i thought my comment from yesterday did not update. I am not stalking you laugh-sailor. Promise! lol
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People tick for different reasons… looks, money, intellect, popularity etc.
No one should be chastised for picking a companion based on what another perceives as frivolous.
No one single factor guarantees a long term relationship without infidelity (with its many mutations) other than pure compatibility on that one thing that makes the other tick, again this could be anything; wealth, looks, intelligence, perspective ness, etc.
Would I CONSIDER dating Obama? Absolutely because he has certain qualities about him, that I would want in anyone right now… even keel, calm personality, intellectual, persistent, reflective, gutsy.
Would I have CONSIDERED dating him when he was a student at the law firm? I do not know. At that age different things made me tick: Intellect, even keel personality, money. (in that order).
BTW, even hough I am open to dating any race, I am more likely to date interracially.
The black woman’s obsession with good black man needs to stop. I grew up “not in America” and although I realize the history (past and current) behind this obsession, I think it is too much. I think the black-woman calls it and the rest follow. Remember, no one ever kicks a dead dog…or do they. Move on already. This is absolutely not the kind of blog (well parts of it) I expect on an interracial dating web site. Do you know how many men are being turned off? To expose your dirty laundry in public is but enough, to wash it is outrageous, c’mon. Really, who wants to date anyone who still has issues like this? Remember this, you teach people how to treat you, especially at a personal level. There is no offence intended, just my honest observation.
@ MElliot. I do not know Jay-Z’s history. But from reading the blog…if it is true that he grew up drugging and pimping, used that blood money, garnered success and went back to assist his community, then he needs to be commended at some level. People make mistakes, they should not always be judged by what they did when they “did not know any better”. He seems to have seen the light! And I know the point is that he is idolized without clarification, but that is for parents to teach their children. We can not hold the media responsible for everyhting.
@Musicman65…very funny… science fiction… you might meet the ‘bionic woman’ here.
@ngbabe… hi…You should not be complacent with comparisons of you to others made by others. I judge myself based on who I was yesteryear and who I am now, and I can tell you with confidence that I am a better person today than I was yesterday. I do not indulge in the futility of people comparisons – by anyone and at any level for any reason.
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Chivalry’s a great base for relationships, isn’t it?
LOL,laugh_sailor! I will settle for good manners though.
sahara-Great Post!! Unfortunately with blogs and chatrooms, you often find people post for different reasons others than the platform of the website..Unfortunate, but true
“I do not indulge in the futility of people comparisons – by anyone and at any level for any reason.”
Exactly, at the end of the day people like who they like…..And if you are confident in yourself, comparisons would never come to mind…
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To “talkinital” regarding your comment to me dated 07/27. An internal message has been sent to you, rather than posting a reply on this blog.
Shotgun007
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Sahara,
You posted some really good points that I happen to agree with. Referring to “some” black women’s obsession of finding good black men.
It “seems” to me that black women have a great deal of loyalty to black men and finding a black male companion is priority and in some communities the only option.
Being more open to possibilities is a key component to finding your soulmate, he may not come in the form of an african american male. If I were at the same place and time that Michelle was when she met Obama, I definetly would have dated him. He’s attractive in more ways than one.
Good Nite everyone!!
Shotgun007
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I also agree with what gw178 stated initially. M.Elliott, also good points on your post.
Men and women (as difficult as it is sometimes) have to start looking past some of the more shallow things that really don’t matter nor make up the individual. Everyone should strive to be a little more open-minded I guess.
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