Is female submission a requirement for black men to be happy in relationships?

Posted by James, 26 Jul 11

"… there's nothing wrong with being assertive and confident but sometimes black women go too far with this "strong black woman" crap. Black men run off with white girls because so to speak they let them be "the man”… White women don’t constantly try to test them or try to prove they are as "strong" as they are, they are more submissive. this might be a controversial thing to say but black men and men in general prefer submissive women because it makes them feel on top and massages there egos. Submissive women are the most desirable and since this is a trait apparently most black women lack this could be described as one of the major reasons why a high percentage of black women are single… My point is if black women IN GENERAL value being feminine and submissive as much as they value being strong and assertive maybe those brothers that ran off with those white women might start coming back." Comment from forum topic: Black Men Don’t Like "Strong Black Women"

See, when people throw the question: "Why do Black men date outside their race (or White women for that matter)", the most common answer has always been "Because they are not capable of dealing with and handling strong Black women". And this is the same answer given to the question: "Why are many Black women single?".

Does this mean Black men can only be happy in relationships where the woman is weak and/or submissive? If yes why is the black man so thrilled with the whole idea of a woman letting him walk all over her?

In my opinion as a White man, I think most Black men and women for that matter take this whole submission thing all wrong. And all this comes in because of trust issues. So many stereotypes have been formed about the Black man that it’s very hard for Black women to trust the man enough to let him take care of her and the family. Its hard to believe that it will be smooth sailing all the way - that the man is there to stay. And being strong has become more like survival tactic. At the same time, the Black woman has been portrayed as the b***h so much so that some Black men are not even willing to just try being with one. They don't believe, a strong black woman can be feminine enough in a relationship. However, I believe any woman can only let go, be the woman that lets the man be the man, if she is with a man who is respectful to her, a man who has proven to be reliable, a man she can trust. This is what brings balance in any relationship.

If submission in the walking-all-over-a-woman sense is what Black men look for in White women, then they got "the grass is more submissive on the other side" part all bad. A man cannot speak to or treat a woman without kindness and respect and expect a kind response and treatment from of her. She might let it go a few times… just a few times … but not forever. You cannot give a woman sh** then expect rose petals to fall out of her a**.

If you ask me, I don’t think White women are submissive in the weak sense of the word. I think the Black men who are in relationships with White women – relationships that have worked - treat these women with kindness and respect… and not as trash. And we have seen what happens to those that don’t: Their a**es get so sued and kicked to streets where they belong sooo fast... (I'll let you fill out the rest.)

What happiness can one possibly get from a relationship where the woman is like your slave?

66 responses to "Is female submission a requirement for black men to be happy in relationships?"

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  1. Posted: 29 Jun 13

    THANK YOU!!! "being strong has become more like survival tactic. At the same time, the Black woman has been portrayed as the b***h so much so that some Black men are not even willing to just try being with one. They don't believe, a strong black woman can be feminine enough in a relationship. However, I believe any woman can only let go, be the woman that lets the man be the man, if she is with a man who is respectful to her, a man who has proven to be reliable, a man she can trust. This is what brings balance in any relationship." Men are really also loving the "50 Shades of Grey" because they believe many women will be VIRGINS and let a man dominate them. (if you've read the book or listened to the audio book) you will notice that the woman is a virgin, not experience in life at all, is in college looking for her first job and is very hesitant to give him what he wants....the man in the story is AFRAID of love because he was adopted. It's a sick and twisted book. I've enjoyed your take on the topic! I'm a strong African-American female and it's very difficult to find a date, or for men to approach me. I get a lot of boys online that approach me or men in there late 60's to approach me. Men my age or close to, haven't given me the time of day. But this will change very soon! ;)

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  2.   zaina1 says:
    Posted: 03 Jun 12

    If a man found love the real one,you see who's the man,lol.I have date a black man for him i was he is true love for me he's not.But anyways,we date and i found him not man enough.So we break out. So what,one day i saw him talking to his girlfriend like sh*t.I was so surprised.I asked him why he was treated her like crap.he is response was she does'nt listen to him. I told him, but with me you always be respectful,you should respect you girlfriend too cause she is really in love.He is answer was not him,lol. See,if someone is really in love the person changes for better. Peace

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  3.   jamie303 says:
    Posted: 30 May 12

    I don't think this is a racial issues not all bm want to alk over women... not all black women are the strong bw type either. I am a bm and I am somewhat "submissive" I'm not weak I just like my man to be the man in our relationship I was taught by my mother and grandmother to stand your ground but stay a woman..

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  4.   Scorpion133 says:
    Posted: 23 May 12

    HELLOOOOOOOOOO, NEWS FLASH___________ itismy time said it best, i think if we stick to our own business we will be better off. now for all of you who don`t get it listen up. YOU HAVE A CHOICE OF WHO YOU WANT, HOW YOU ARE TREATED, AND HOW YOU TREAT. race did not create these kind of issues, society did. guess who makes up society.------------- YOU! WE ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING AROUND US, UNTIL WE MISSED THAT POINT. if you want change, do your part by doing a little research, soul searching, and realize that each of you probably have had a bad relationship in the past and this has made us bitter, even me. but i don`t blame another woman for this, nor penalize her. when it comes down to relationships we have a long list of expectation we want the other to meet. many of us miss the most important one of all------------- think about it.

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  5.   tdh9.9 says:
    Posted: 20 May 12

    More black women need to learn how acquiesce.

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  6.   tdh9.9 says:
    Posted: 20 May 12

    James, a hit dog will holler. Based upon several responses I've read you've apparently you've hit some nerves. Stay strong in your convictions. I agree with you. I've passed up lots of otherwise qualified black women for the very reason you've stated. That thing they call strength is a dealbreaker.

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  7.   shydude74 says:
    Posted: 01 May 12

    well it helps other races are better for the most for black men,thats why black men with other women are increasing.statistics prove that white,asian and hispanic women are better than black women.alot of black men feel this way as does nonbiased other races of women.

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  8. Posted: 31 Dec 11

    i just think eveyone has the right to pick who it is they want to see if u dont think thats the guy for u or thats the woman for u keep it moving me personally submissive turns me off but pushy is also a turn off in a relationship 2 heads r better than 1 she might know something that i dont witch could help both of us if she dosent speak up or u dont let her then those ideas get wasted but on the other hand shes not my boss and im not going to listen to her putting me down if thats the case keep it moving see ya

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  9. Posted: 17 Sep 11

    I was married to a black man and I treated him the same way I treat the wm that I date. Except, I find that WM are more 'in control' and less likely to pull power trips or head-games. These are MY personal experience. At home I am rather submissive within the confines of a committed, monogamous relationship. I cook very well, rub feet, scratch heads (lol!) and am a lady on the streets and... you know the rest. BUT BM Imma be real ;). SOME of my BM friends have confided, that for the most part, WW allow themselves to 'roll over' for BM. Hey, I don't know a dang thing about it, as I no longer date BM and aren't a WW. What do you say, BM & WW? Are my BM friends wrong?

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    • NOPLYER says:
      Posted: 19 Sep 11

      @ happysolucky - IMO I think your BM friends are speaking from their own experiences in relation to the individual WW they'd delt with. Myths are llike nursed babies, the more you feed them the bigger they grow! I wouldn't say that WW white allow BM to walk all over them no more than BW do. I hear alot of BM feed this lie to folks on the outside looking in and far too many BW are all too willing to eat it up. I think that some WW who may be new to dating BM are a little more tolerant in the beginning in effort to really get to understand the guy but if he proves to be a waste of time most WW like BW will tell him to agitate the gravel (get to moving)! I hear this myth more from BW than I do BM so I can only wonder is this a way of SOME, I say again, SOME sisters to save face and avoid what maybe painful feelings over the issue of BM dating WW or other non-BW. I often hear this comment made when a BM is dating a Latina, Asian or even a non AF/AM BW. It sounds to me like some sisters are saying, " if he's dating or married to a non AF/AM woman it's only because she let's him do what, when or however he wants to do. It's the same way some brothers say, "If she's dating or married to a WM, then the guy most be tricking, p*ssy whipped or he's a push over" because other than that why would she want him instead of one of us! See how some of us feed into these myths as a means of soothing our bruised egos. This goes to show that there's a certain level of positive jealousy and possessiveness between BM and BW. Despite many of the issues that effect our relationships, I feel deep down inside many of us want to see BM and BW, building lives together and making eachother happy. While I feel you should be with the one who wants to be with you, I still enjoy seeing BM and BW together.

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      • nika23 says:
        Posted: 22 May 12

        I agree that these are stereotypes and I don't believe all white and Asian women do everything they are told to do, but many black men give this as their reason for dating out of their race. I have heard this from black male friends as well as listening to the conversations of some white women white women. I remember hearing a conversation by people in the club (ladies room), on the subway etc. People talk about their personal business very freely here (US), but I remember one specific conversation where a white girl was in the bathroom crying to her friends because a black guy (that she just met at the club) told here if she gave him a blow j-b he would be her boyfriend. She had done it and he had lied (of course) and there she was crying. This is not the only time I've heard these conversations from white women, but it was the first time and it shocked me. I felt bad for the girl, but couldn't understand why she did it. Yes I've seen sex in club rest rooms too of people (WW/BM) who seemed to have only met. Some BW women friends have told me black men approached them with that kind of crap and when they said no, the men would say, that's why I date white women anyway. Is it exaggerated, yes of course, but I have seen it happen in real life on more than one occassion. I remember when some of our footballers (soccer in the US) came here for a game during the world cup a few years back, they said they were shocked and turned off by how the white women were offering them sex and they didn't know them. Black women are not making this up, it's often thrown in our face as the reason black men don't want us. I know all white women aren't like this because I have a close friend who is a white female and she doesn't sleep around, but if white women and black men are willing to say the stereotypes about black women are true for most or all of us, then they should not deny the stereotypes about them either. Those stereotypes about white women had to have come from somewhere. I've even heard white men say they don't date white women who date black men because the black men pass them around. It's not only black women saying this.

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        • Sugahrush says:
          Posted: 31 May 12

          It's a sad fact, there will always be 'people you DO....and 'people you do RIGHT!! Only the individual can choose how they're DONE.

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  10.   SexC29 says:
    Posted: 12 Sep 11

    I think this was written by a White woman and not a White man. First, the word phrases and tone is that of a woman and second, I think she is tired of people retaliating against her and other White women who date Black men and being called "door mats." For these simple reasons alone, I will not give a lot of comment, but I will say this...In all Black neighborhoods the scenario is just that. The White women are being used for their car, money, and submission. The scenario may be different if a Black man grew up in a predominately White neighborhood and for that reason, they like White women because there are more of them to choose from than Black women.

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  11.   RainKeeper says:
    Posted: 09 Sep 11

    I feel that a woman should be submissive to her man. It's actually fun and I personally enjoy it. But women should never allow themselves to be doormats and to be walked all over.

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  12.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 05 Sep 11

    SugahRush - You're on point and I wish more people understood the points that you made. As I've stated it's about maintaining the balance in a relationship. This world is so backward and twisted that it almost makes it impossible to people to be together because we're so competitive and ego-driven till the point of being toxic. We're so insecure within ourselves as men and women that we're always seeking ways to prove to oueselves that we're compotent by always testing, measuring and seeking outside sources of assurance that we're ok. I don't understand why we use our relationships as the testing or proving grounds. I believe that must of this foolishness is nothing more than our need for validation and affrimation because we're so insecure as people. If we're together as a couple then we should accept eachother along with the wholes in our armor ( as long as we not self-destrutive or abusive) and through that acceptance and nurturing we can inspire eachother to become better people and that IMO is what companionship is about, it's not about me measuring my srength in comparision to your weekness but using it as a means of support you. When you have people that or so depleted on the inside they're like junkies, they're always looking for a fix. They need someone to give them that next high and they can only be with someone that feeds their addiction and sad to say it many of our men and some of our women because they're so beating down by society seek out a mate to feed their hunger for respect and a feeling of being competent. Men seek their fix from the relationships and women seek it from society by becoming status freaks and acheivement hounds. Once again great insight and much respect. God bless you and yours!

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    • SugahRush says:
      Posted: 06 Sep 11

      Noplayer: Thank YOU so much! You are a thoughtful commentator in your own right. I do appreciate you taking the time to read and comment! It means so much that you actually understood my points. God's best right back atcha! SugahRush

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  13.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 04 Sep 11

    Great topic ! To be submit only means to agree. What man doesn't want a woman that's agreeable. It's not about him or her having the upper hand all the time it's about meeting eachothers needs but for that to happen both people have to be mentaly healthy, ego-driven and overly demanding people are addicted and no matter what you do or how well you do it you cant please an addict. It's all about balnce. As a husband and father I have to maintain certain level of dominance (dont confuese dominance with aggressivenness) in the home, if not how in the hell do I maintain order in the house if everyone is allow to do whatever and whenever. My duties as a husband is to provide, lead and defend those under my care but that cant happen if those under my care we not submit or agree to my care. He or she that will not listen to you will not be controlled by you. I know women don't like the word control but the got it all wrong, please let me explain and make myself clear. As a homeowner you want to protect your house and it contents so you control who comes in and out of your home and you set rules of proper conduct for those in your home as a way of protecting you and your home, is that right? As a husband my wife expects me to protect her and our babies, well in order for me to do that I have to have a degree or control over her and my babies. I have to be able to say to her, " baby if possible avoid being out at night by yourself or stay away form over on the eastside because it's crime ridden and drug infested" and for her own prptection she should agree / submit / take head / or comply with the restaints I've placed on her, now if she rebels and goes out and gets robbed or knocked upside the head then, it's not on me it's on her. Don't ask me to be THE MAN and then want to rebel from my authority, you cant have one without the other. As a man you have to come with something because women will not and should not submit to any ol fool that cames through. Only after proving yourself as a man capable of leading by the wisdom in your head and not from your ego should a women submit to you. Women are creators of security they gravitate towards leadership, focus, assertiveness, strength and intelligence they don't run from it or fight against it, not if the have good sense. I ask women, if they had a good father growing up what were the things that they admired most about him and most of them said he made them feel secure, wanted, valued, protected and taken care of. Is it not true that women sometimes marry the very men who remind them of their fathers and if so why? My grandma always said, "you'll attract more flies with honey than vineger' and she was so skillful at the art of being agreeable / submissive, here's an example: She caught my grandfather just coming in from work when she started in on him by complaining about her car, some of the problems it was given her and how she wanted a new car and he out-right said, " No ANNA MAE I'm not getting you a new car, I work hard for my money it don't grow next to the colard greens!" Was she disaapoint yeah but look how she handle him. She said, "Ok, come on in the bathroom your water is ready and your clothes are on the sink"! She went and got his food out of the oven, set it out the living room table, turned on the news for him as she always did and got him his glass of water and his news paper. She went on about her business and remind quite. While she was taking away his plate he said, " hey ANNA MAE, what are your doing tomorrow and she replied , " I'm going grocery shopping" and he said, "how about we go shop for you a new car first and then go to the grocery store?" She was so good at getting what she wanted out of him just by not being disagreeable! When she was out of the room I asked him, I thought you said you wasn't getting her a new car and he told me, " son it's hard to hold back from a good woman and when you find you a good woman that treats you right then you should "turn your pants upside down and shake'em out" to get her ANYTHING she need and some of what she WANTS, boy do you hear me? Yes Sir I replied! Yeah he shook his pants out that next morning because she got her a new car and a new bed and I got a new bike. Had she ranted and raved she would have pissed him off and he would have ignored her and she would've gotten nothing but becaus e she knew how to be agreeable she what she asked for plus some more. LADIES LADIES LADIES LADIES-------PLEASE HEAR ME!! When you got a man that loves you, he wants to please you and make sure you're provide for. He defines himself as a man by how well he can provide for you. It makes him feel worthy of your love and respect when he can do for you. When a man can't do for his woman as he should it makes him mentally unstable, I've had a friend cry in my arms because he was so devastated because he was laid off and his wife was picking up his slack. Because so many of our men are faced with unemployment, unstable employment or insufficient employment they avoid taking on the responsibility of marriage and a family because it's too demean on him when he has to look like a failure in the eyes of the world and his woman because he cant provide for her, men are sensitive about this and sometimes too sensitive. I know I'd beg borrow or steal to provide for the woman I love but I'm willing to give up whatever I have to to send her packing when she because too disagreeable. I don't want a woman kneeling at my feet I just want peace in my house and after dealing with crazy, toxic and sometimes, racist people all day at work the last person I want to have to go to war with is the woman that sleeps in my arms. Do I want a women to be submissive yes because I'm always willing to be THE MAN! Take it for what it's worth!

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    • nika23 says:
      Posted: 22 May 12

      I like what you said. I beleive many women try to be submissive, but we end being taken advantage of. We don't want to be fools so it's a tough balancing act being a woman. For some men, if you have a different opinion, it's seen as being disagreeable even if there is no arguement. Some men expect you women to do everything they say and become abusive if the woman doesn't go along with it. That is very scary for women possibly prt of the reason some women would rather stay alone than try for love again. It's can be safer than submitting again.

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  14.   maymiedoll says:
    Posted: 27 Aug 11

    Dear Sugah, Sweetheart, you SO said it best. GOD Bless you.

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    • SugahRush says:
      Posted: 28 Aug 11

      Thank you, Maymiedoll! ;-) Just callin' it like I've seen it...lol.

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  15.   maymiedoll says:
    Posted: 27 Aug 11

    Sad, a topic like this must turn into a Black Male Bashing. Look for the answers right here in this blog. If I were a black male I surely would run away.

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  16.   maymiedoll says:
    Posted: 27 Aug 11

    You can act like a woman; walk the walk and talk the talk, be feminine and desirable and submissive to your man and still be strong. There is no need to beat him up, batter him with verbiage or make him feel small. This is the slip-up. These types of mistakes are not only made by one single race of women but a majority can surely discourage hardworking, struggling males and run off the intelligent, educated ones very quickly. "Strong?" Some of us give new meaning to that word, as it is so courteously used.

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  17.   itismytime says:
    Posted: 16 Aug 11

    Let each and everyone of us take a deeeeeep breath...We are all ways finger pointing at each other...However no one seems to take responsibility for the Black Race as a whole for being like we are: Men locked away( for whatever reason) (gay) (whores) (violent) (lazy) (controling) (can't stand the woman making more money) (en-educated/un/under employed) (women selling out to the highest bidder/you know the big baller)...Who should we blame for each others fault, why are we always arguing about who is at fault? The blame game continues, we will never come up with solutions..Oh, I am sorry, just received a news flash: There are many good, hard working, responsible Black Men and Black Women...Love whom you may, make no excuses, date any race you want and quit trying to justify it by beating up on one another...

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  18.   Delie says:
    Posted: 15 Aug 11

    I would say that black African women are submissive to a large extend cos that's how women are brought up here in Africa by tradition but u know Wat! it doesn't go so well because men start taking advantage.

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  19.   Esteejay says:
    Posted: 11 Aug 11

    Here is another related article. http://survivingdating.com/men-are-not-qualified-to-lead-women-or-relationships

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  20. Posted: 10 Aug 11

    The problem is, for the people who do so, should immediatly stop trying to bunch all of us-(black women + men) together under one umbrella as if we all share the same brain and act as one. Not all black women are single, or want a black man or cant be submissive without being strong or without feeling threated by some non existent black male. Actually we are going to say African American. Also not all AA men date white women and for the mature majority who are in loving relationships with caucasian women Im pretty sure 100% percent of them would not say the only reason is that black women are not submissive. If an AA women has a strong self worth that is great!--(She seemingly cant get it from anywhere else), However it is a steretype to say all AA women are not submissive enough for a group of men we do not know and have nothing in common with except the color of our skin. Everyone is different mind, body, soul, spirit and persona- AA people are individuals like anyone else and whoever is doing this need to stop trying to group us up in a bunch like you have us all figured out from your experiment. You do not and you never will. Stop the steretypes and AA women bashing=leave us alone. (They) speak of us- AA women + men alike as if we are less than animals with barbaric attitudes and expectations and are not capable of initiating and successfully obtaining long lasting unions based on true love and pure personal attraction--within or outside "our" race. This backward concept is idiotic and Im so tiered of being the offended subject of "their" AA women, people bashing. No matter the color, we all have life in common, we are all the human race, live and let live.

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  21.   melliot says:
    Posted: 10 Aug 11

    Reese, My argument is not about whether to be submissive or not. That issue is does not concern me. All i assert is that if HYPOTHETICALLY (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE DOES NOT MEAN IT IS TRUE JUST AN EXAMPLE) the modern dating culture suggest that a woman who wishes to date a man should cook and bring the man a homemade lunch everday at his job that is then that is the current dating cultural norm of the time. A woman or man can choose to defy the dating norm and cling on to their traditional dating culture. However, they must realize that they cannot blame the man or woman for choosing to date a person who ascribes to the same modern dating culture as them over a person who does not. Culture is the issue here not race. But as a world traveler race is also an important factor is sometimes identyfying culture. Race is not the only factor, but one of many. For example not all African Americans listen to Hip Hop or R&B, but if you were riding in New York and a African American teenager pulled up to you with a pimped out car, but was blaring Garth Brooks or Willie Nelson instead of Hip Hop or R&B you would do a double take because the overwheming majority of people do not associate today's African American youth with blaring country music in their cars over HIp Hop or R&B. That is not stereotyping it is using race as one of the many factors in identyfying cultural norms. RACE MUST NOT BE THE ONLY COMPONENT, BUT CERTAINLY IN THIS SENARIO IT CAN COME INTO THE EQUATION. Just like a woman you are less likely to offer a Middle Eastern woman wearing a Hijab a glass of wine at a dinner party you throw as opposed to a European American woman. Race can play a factor in identifying cultural traits but it mus tnot be the only factor. There must be a culmination of factors, but race may be included. Now concerning African American women, Asian, Euro, Indian, and whatever other races exist, there are some women who are clinging to traditional dating cultures and some that are embracing modern dating cultures. Men who wish to engage a woman will find out soon enough by asking a few questions to get some answers that will tell whether a womans dating views are modern or non-modern. If he is looking for a modern woman and she is non-modern chances are he will seek company in the arms of a more modern woman. It is not a race issue, but simply a cultural issue. But as I said before race can be one of many components in the begining of trying to acess culture before you engage an individual.

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  22.   melliot says:
    Posted: 10 Aug 11

    honeygirl123, BEFORE I BEGIN I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE A DISCLAIMER THAT I ONLY SPEAK OF AMERICA IN MY COMMENTS In the end of the day when it comes to successful dating "marriage talks and all the other stuff walks". The only way to guage whether dating is successful is to guage the full outcome which is marriage. Not dating, not kids from dating, not casual sex, or promise rings. "Marriage talks and the rest walks" no matter what race we look at now that we ar eliving in a free America where all races have equal opportunity to marry.Nobody ever says, I have been very successful in my dating life but nobody will marry me". People date to weed out all the vast amoint of applicants down to 1 person (well one person in most westernized countries) which they choose to marry. The way we gather information in America on whether a man was willing tomake a commitment to a woman is by acessing the number of marriage licenses filed amongst the states within a given period of time. The marriage license certify's that a man and woman have made a commitement under the government to enter into a formal commitment contract. Close only counts in hand grenades and horse shoes lol. Nobody grants a license for being close to marriage. You either make the commitment or you do not. The stastics are pretty cut and clear and cannot be skewed. If state X had 400 people sub,it a marriage license certifying their marriage that is it. The number cannot really be fudged or as Bush would say there is no "fuzzy math". Again you either get married or you do not. So without further adue here is where we are at. We know that interacial marriage has spiked according to the US cnsus beareu based on those difficult to fudge math state marriage certificates which have a race assesement for stat recordings. We also know that where marriage between African American males and non-black women have spiked sinc ethe last census. hence Black men are getting married despite popular belief. Now here is where it become tricky and where stats are amazing. Despite popular belief by groups of uninformed African American women who never actually cracked open the books and loked at the facts for themselves African American Men are in-fact marry Black women at spiked rates. So the question is not whether African American men are marry Black women, the question is What type of Black women are African American men marrying lol. Well while African American women were sitting around worried about the non-Black women seeking out their men to date and marry they sort of forgot about the Beautiful African women of Africa, Haiti, South America Canada, Europe, and other Carribean countries. I KNOW A HUGE LIGHTBULB JUST WENT OFF! TAKE A MOMENT TO BREATHE..... WHEW! OK HERE WE GO AGAIN LOL You were invaded not by non-black women, but by Black women that were right under your nose lol. The stats show that a huge spike in marriages between African American men and African women of non-American descent from the aforementioned countries is huge. African American men are marrying women of African descent, just not as many African American women. WHY? Wello that is a whole other story. Perhaps cultural difference which I address in the modern dating culture to non-modern dating culture explanation below. Perhaos an attraction ot exotic women of African descent, or it just might be that immigration has greatly increased the African Americans contact with such non African American African women. I will personally go withthe culture theory as a good ooking woman no matter where she is from is attractive it must be the dating culture of these African women which appeals to African American men Now back to the statistics. In all races Interacial marriages spiked except in one particulr race where in-fact interacial marriages and marriages alltogether dropped. This was in the African American woman category. AGAIN THESE ARE STATS NOT SOME PERSONAL ATTACK AS NUMBER DO NOT HAVE EMOTION OR PERSONAL FEELING. NUMBERS SIMPLY READ AS THEY READ. The Census stats on marriage show that Whereas, "SOME NOT ALL" African American women who endorse the non-modern dating culture may sometimes suggest that African American men are not capable of handling the non-modern cultural dating differences of "SOME NOT ALL" African American women it, appears that when it comes to the highest level of commitement in dating "actual marriage" no race of men except "SOME" African American men have chosen, despite the differences, to accept the non-modern dating cultural differences of "SOME NOT ALL" African American women. The statistics did not show a spike, but a decrease in marriages across the board to African American women in every racial category. Which suggest not a racial divide, but a dating cultural divide in which the other races have chosen to pursue women who ascribe to a more modern dating culture and norms. This is evidence by the spike in marriage by non-african american African women to non-African American men in America. Why are these men choosing to marry non African American=-African women at a much higher rate than African American women. Shall we deduce. Both African American and non-African American -African women are equally beautiful and share some of the same beautiful features. The difference then must be CULTURE! The culture of these African women of non-African American descent have a culture which adapts easier to the culture of the overwhelming manjority of non-African American as well as the majority of African AMerican men in the United States. So you are correct non-African American men are dating African American women, but they are actually marrying non-African American African women in America and the reason for this preference is based on culture. I think most women want to be on the marrying sideof the equation as opposed to the dating side. AGAIN THIS IS NTO TO SAY THAT ALL OR EVEN A MAJORITY OF AFRICAN AMRICAN WOMEN ASCrIBE TO THE NON-MODERN DATING CULTURE. THIS ONLY CONCERNS AND APPLIES THOSE WHO DO NOT AND THE RESUTING STATISTICAL EFFECTS AND OUTCOME FOR SUCH CHOICES. IN SHORT statistically non-modern culture daters are less likely in a modern dating culture America regardless of race. Although I admire the praise you suggest you might receive from men of other races the marriage stats tell a completely different story. Humor2u, It is true that in the dating culture of the 1970's men were responsible for the purchase of all things related to the date. It is als true that in the 1800-1940's a woman would be responsible for preparing a man a whole meal and inviting him to her parents home for dinner. To suggest that a woman would conform to such an activity now is pretty unreasonable in 2011. My point is culture evolves and the expectations of the culture evolve with it. If your going to make a logical argument it must be consistent. Your argument is that men are not men anymore because they do not still practice the culture of dating you were familiar with in the 1970's where men paid for everything. However you logic is not consistent because your suggesting that the dating culture of the 1970's has always been the standard of dating. However histroy shows that dating in America evolved and changed as the culture changes. To cling on to the good days of 1970's but not to realize that the dating culture of the 1970's wa snot always so is contradictory. By the mere fact that you acknowledge that dating has changed since the 1970's is to acknowlege that the dating culture does and always will evolve. The movie grease, where young American teenange women were out at the burger shacks alone in cars with boys is a far cray for the conservative dating of the 1920's were a man would sit on the front porch of a woman house and chat with her under the watchful eye of her father and mother. In essence the culture of dating does change and evolve over time to fit the needs and desires of those parites within the culture. For those who refuse to accept the cultural shift and cling to to a time and culture long gone and forgotten they will often be the left behind as the majority moves forward and embraces evolution. This is not to say that any particular dating culture, old or new is the right or wrong culture, but it is to recognize that as culture shifts those who refuse to shift and adjust to change often are passed over in favor of the more modern culture. This is also not to suggest that men or women of a less modern cultural dating view cannot be located and found for dating if so desired by those seeking someone mor ein line with their cultural dating beliefs. However, no man or woman should redicule anyone who might choose to follow a particulr culture as no culture is inferior just different. To ostracize anyone over their cultural beliefs is ethnocentricism. But we must not also sugar coat the reality of personal sacrafice those who choose to a minority cultural belief may also bear. As i stated previously any woman trying to apply the less modern cultural dating standards when trying to date a modern cultural dating man will oftentimes face rejection where the man wishes to find a woman who embraces modern dating culture. This is not to say either culture is superior to another, it is just the preference of a man to date women who ascribe to a more modern culture of dating. Whether the woman be African American, Asian, Euro American, Indian, or an Alien from the planet Mars, if her culture of dating is not consistent with the modern dating culture practiced by the majority of men and women the woman will always be dismissed in favor of women who do embrace the modern culture of dating.

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    • nika23 says:
      Posted: 22 May 12

      Very interesting, I will look into it, but I'm surprised that their was a surge in African American men marrying black women (not African American). I'm Caribbean and I often see and hear African American men talking so badly about black women that I didn't think they found any of us attractive. I've always been taught to look at how a man treats his mother as a guide to how he'll treat me, so seeing African American men bash African American women made me believe it would be the same for me. I have dated 2 African American men, so I'm not judging them by what I see, but also what I've experienced. I know some great African American women and some crazy ones just like any other group, but I find this really interesting. I am surprised, but then again my younger sister married an African American man so I know of this first hand, but also one of my brother's married an African American woman so in my family it's even. My sister-in-law is a nurse, deeply religious, a great mother and not the type of woman African American women are portrayed as. I don't know the answer to why this shift, but I would be lying if say some of these marriages were to become US citizens. It's done amongst blacks just like it's done among other races, but I don't know what percent.

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  23.   meglw2000 says:
    Posted: 09 Aug 11

    some women have evolved with changes for dating but the hard part is that woman also have to keep a certain traditional role. For example a women paying for a date is great but a man also wants to be able to come home from work and vent/complain to the woman and have her LISTEN and not offer any advise or try to solve the problem. In some situations the "role of submission" may be successful. Women have to juggle the best of both worlds...assertive and submissive.

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  24.   Reese says:
    Posted: 09 Aug 11

    Mellot: I will first say that much respect for the way you come across by addressing what I said and not attacking me or black women. I am not saying that I even agree with man being in charge my thing is all black women are not the same. Some are looking for a take charge man and some aren't. But I didn't say women need to be submissive the brother who wrote the article did. But I still stand by what I said earlier if you want an submissive women you have to be able to be a man. Alot of sisters do work hand in hand with there man. Most times we are in better positions. But for the men wanting women to bow down to them. You cannot do that if you have your hand out is my only piont. It doesn't sound like that is what you are looking for. I do not agree with my sister who said there are no good black men. Or with the Doher who suggested the stereotyp that you were just hung. Just like I reconize there is a range of black men some people don't see that there is a range in black women(Mellot I don't mean you). But date who you want I don't like people clowning each other as an excuse. I don't understand how you can see that if stereotypes aren't true about you(black man or woman) how you can think they are all true about your sisters or brothers.

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    • Onyx_King says:
      Posted: 10 Aug 11

      "... if you want an submissive woman you have to be able to be a man." What really gets to me is how often Black women state in varying ways, "Be a man!" How can a person, a woman; tell a person, a man: "Be a man!" Whereby no Black woman has been or will ever be a man! Many have tried to raise a child into manhood...and failed miserably...Can't do it. Create and nurture a male child. My response, be a woman. The difference you will see, is a man.

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      • SugahRush says:
        Posted: 12 Aug 11

        Onyx King: Your observation is quite keen. I'm the mother of 3 sons and mentor to at least 3-4 others. I agree wholly that I can do ANYTHING except raise boys to men. I agree that only a man can do that. Upon becoming a Co-parent, however, I made it a priority to ensure that our sons had the constant input of very strong, spirited, nurturing, wise, committed men in their lives.Their father, my Ex & Partner in Parenting is involved but we're in different areas. None of these men were "Mamma's Friends" but men who have a vested interest and knowledge of our family's history, dynamics, and goals. As the primary caregiver of our kids, I've been responsible for the vision, the plan and the execution. It's been rewarding and their dad is in agreement. Cool.

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  25.   trinigirl says:
    Posted: 09 Aug 11

    the word "Submission" is missued. If I have to "show" a deserving man, regardless of his skin color, how he should be treated, he in turn should be treating me the same way. Both sexes should equally take care of each other thats not submission. we should listen to each other for what we need - its not about submission - that word should be taken out of the dictionary. a few seconds ago

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  26.   Doher says:
    Posted: 09 Aug 11

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  27.   Humor2u says:
    Posted: 09 Aug 11

    A man is supposed to pay for a womans ticket to a movie and snacks as well if he in fact cares for the woman. There are no real black men out there anymore.(good ones). It use to be back in the early 70s. Those men are either dead, in jail, or on drugs.The good black men were good providers also. (jobs). Humor2u.

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  28.   melliot says:
    Posted: 07 Aug 11

    Reese I do see your point but to what degree do you think the cultural differences play a role? Different cultures have different expectations regarding the role of men and women in a dating relationship. For example a group of women from one particular culture might not have an issue with chippping in financially for a first date while another group of women might find that concept of contributing financially to a first date to be outside there cultural norms. The culture of dating has evolved in America and women have become less reserved and more aggressive about going for the guy the want. The idea of sitting back and waiting fro a perfect man to fall into her lap (or be delivered by Fed EX) has become as foreign as asking a womans parents permission to take their daughter out. As a dominant culture evolves sometimes less dominant cultures in the immediate arena will undergo some unintentional effects. Culture is not based on race, but race like clothing or other attire can sometimes be an identifying indicator of a persons culture. For example, a woman wearing a hijab which signifies her religious affiliation is less likely to accept an invitation to have alcoholic beverages at a martini bar than a woman wearing skinny jeans and a halter top. The identification marker was the womans hijab which signified her affiliation to the practice of Islam which prohibits the consumption of alcohol. This does not mean that all muslim women abstain from alcohol, but it is safe to say that a woman wearing is hijab is more likely to abstain from drinking alcohol than not. In other countreiss like Syria, Morocco, Lybia, Turkey, and Iraq before the war alcohol consumpion was a personal decision although the religious practice of the country was heavily islam. That being said, identifying markers are not always accurate, but they can narrow down probability. In American dating, the predominant culture as previously aforementioned is geared towards a more assertive woman along with several other norms which have evolved. While a majority of women in America have adopted or assimilated to the more modern dating culture, some groups have chosen (which they are free to do) to continue in there traditional beliefs and values regarding dating. I will be the first to say that there is nothing at all wrong with that choice as we are all free in America do date as we please. However there is the principle of cause and effect. When a dominant group causes a change in the culture the smaller cultural groups can either choose to adapt or stay the same. Adaptation is up to the individual within a cultural group which then impacts other individuals creating a cultural shift within a group. Or adaptation can be a single act by an individual in a group which does not impact others. African American culture is a culture in America as is Irish American, Italian American, Asian American, ect..... Thereofore within the culture are some cultural dating norms. The question to be asked is WHETHER THE DATING NORMS OF THE WOMEN OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURE RUN REPUGNANT TO THE DATING NORMS OF THE DOMINANT DATING CULTURE OF AMERICA? This does not mean that all African Americans ascribe to the dating norms of the African American culture or community, but for thise that do there may be a unwillingness by men preferring to seek out and date women ascribing to the dominant dating culture. For example the more agressive woman of the modern dating culture has no issue with chipping in on a first date. if a man were to purchase the first round fo drinks, the modern dating woman would volunteer to purchase the second round. If a man purchased the movie tickets, the modern woman would have no issue with buying the snacks. Work demands and dating during the week or meeting up during the week are much less of an issue for the modern dating woman who has evolved to make herself more acessable to be dated. The days of talking on the phone for hours during the week have been replaced by more effort to have face to face chats under the new modern dating womans evolution. Many of these new evolutions of the modern dating woman have proven to be quite effective in attracting the interest of men. Some would say this evolution has created an unfair playing feild in which women clinging to their traditional dating norms. What man would not like the idea of a woman chipping in or offering to cover some fo the cost for a first date? Wht man would not like the idea of a woman calling him after a date on saturday to see if he would like to get together on Sunday or any other day during the weeks he was free? What man would not like a woman who after a work day during the week would be willing to get together and hang out for a bit. The new era of modern dating has evolved a more proactive woman who is more handsand assertive in the dating process. Women will no longe sit back waiting, but will seek out and obtain the man they desire. As a consequence those women clinging to less modern dating cultures or norms will oftentimes end up getting the short end of the stick. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT THESE WOMEN NEED TO CHANGE AS IT IS PERFECTLY THERE RIGH TO EXERCISE THERE DATING CULTURAL BELIEFS AS THEY SEE FIT, but it must also be said that men are also free to desire not to date women who cling to their less modern cultural norms of dating. Hence Reese, whether African American women date within or without of their race is of no consequence in their dating success. The main component to African American women as a whole acheiving dating success in the modern dating culture is whether they are ready to fully embrace and accept the modern dating culture or cling to their traditonal noms of dating. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT ALL AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN SHARE THE SAME CULTURAL BELIEFS REGARDING DATING AS MANy AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN HAVE FULLY ACCEPTED AND EMBRACED THE MODERN DATING CULTURE. HOWEVER FOR THOSE WOMEN STILLOUT ON THE FRINGE, WHETHER THEY BE AFRICAN AMERICAN, ASIAN, EUROPEAN AMERICAN, HISPANIC, OR INDIAN THERE WILL BE A TIME FOR CHANGE AND EMBRACING A NEW MORE MODERN CULTURES OR KEEPING WITH OLD WAYS. THOSE WHO CHOSE NOT TO EVOLVE WILL OFTENTIMES GET THE SHORT END OF THE STICK NO MATTTER WHAT RACE YOU CHOOSE TO DATE. THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID EVOLVING IS TO FIND SOMEONE WHO SHARES THE TRADITIONAL CULTURAL DATING VALUES AS YOURSELF. UNFORTUNATELY IN THE MODERN DATING WOLRD THIS CAN BE AN EXTREMELY TOUGH SELL TO A MAN.

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  29. Posted: 07 Aug 11

    In my opinion, I feel black men use the platform of "Black Women Not Being Submissive Like White Women" as an excuse to cover his shortcomings. I could go on and on and talk about how black women don't run away from problems... rather it is financial difficulty..responsibility of raising children as a single parent... sticking by their men why they return in and out of prison constantly or working long hours trying to make it. So in other words, we as black women have been carrying the weight of our black brothers a long ,and we have been waiting submissively for them to get it together. When some black men do get it together.. they make up excuses like the topic being discussed. Was I not submissive enough to stick with you when you had no job, nowhere to live, trying to make it through college? Come on now, stop that crap! We are tired.. that is why we are not taking care of you anymore. You black men need to stand up and handle your responsibilities for the black communities. Now, I will leave this thought on your mind. If black men feel that black women are too strong minded and not submissive enough... then why is it that white men praise the black women for being strong and independent and not submissive to them. White men like strong, independent non-submissive black women and black men don't want independent non-submissive black women? Do the math. Black men feel inferior to us because they have dropped the ball throughout the years, and we have landed on top of them. Don't use those lame excuses black men. Pick up the ball, and get it rolling again. By doing this, you will solve the problem of black women becoming too independent and as you say"non-submissive'.

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    • itismytime says:
      Posted: 12 Aug 11

      Why is it that we are still fighting and bickering about who we are, and why do we choose to love anyone other than inside the race...This nation is so confused and so racially messed up and mixed up it is unbelievable...I make no excuse for who I choose to date, neither should anyone else...If you feel (white are black) (male or female) that you have to defend who you choose or choose not too love, perhaps you need to check yourself...Life is so precious and often times so short...Love the man or the woman that will love you back, regardless of race...Let your choice be your choice, make no excuse to anyone for who you choose to love (black or white) (male or female)...Often times the controversey that we choose to engage in means that we are not satisfied with the choice that we made and need someone elses approval...In short live and let live....

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    • r3llim says:
      Posted: 27 Aug 11

      Yeah honeygirl keep telling yourself that. Because ALL white men love strong women. So much that white men like Donald Trump have trophy wives that have no functional skill or education. Or how about those white men that have "Asian fever" because of the stereotype of Asian women being very submissive. Don't pretend that ALL white men value strength more than black men just as I won't pretend ALL black women collect government assistance and have children in wedlock. Also you say that black men feel inferior to black women but tell me why is it that black men still outnumber black women in obtaining degrees in science and engineering. These degrees are not only in high demand but can lead to the development in major industries (Dell, Microsoft, G.E., ect). There are men in general that are intimidated by strength but for the most part a lot of men dont mind an independent woman. Men just dont like naggers and complainers. Some men can handle it but others dislike it the same way children dislike their parents nagging at them. But to be honest, I'm sick of black women like you who harp about black men needing to take responsibility for the community and brag about being superior to black men yet only use your accomplishments as some worth to get a date for Friday night and impress white men. Put your money where your mouth is and PROVE YOU ARE BETTER THAN BLACK MEN AND NOT JUST TOLERABLE OR DECENT. Produce some engineers and scientists that can develop new technologies so that black people can produce wealth in this global economy. Develop companies that can employ more black women so that they can be independent ass well. When black women do this trust me I will be the first black man to bend down and kiss your feet and call you "your highness". But until then please get off your high horse. And this comment is not coming from an incompetent black man but one who is employed and a pre-med college student. Are there inferior black men? Yes. Sadly there are many. But same can be said for some black women. There are responsible black men out there, ma'am. It's that we're too busy working or are considered "too nice" to ever have a date.

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      • nika23 says:
        Posted: 22 May 12

        You say more black men get science and engineering degrees as oppsoed to black women, but it's the same for women of other races (white, Asian etc). Engineering is a male dominated field, so it's expected that more black men will be in this field than black women. Women in general go into helping fields which pay less, but it affects society. Also there are black women in the sciences and engineering, one in my family actually. Looking at my sisters and close female cousins, there is a doctor, an engineer, a dentist, a respiratory therapist, 3 nurses and I'm a mental health counselor. This is just a sample of the women closest to me in my family. I do have female family members that became pregnant young and some don't have advanced degrees or professional jobs, but if your only judgement of what makes black women good women are the amount of science and engineering degrees they have, I say that's a problem. Black men with no degrees want black women to accept them the way they are, but black women with advanced degrees still don't compare unless it's in science or engineering. I don't believe any group is inferior or superior to any group, but honeygirl makes some good points. I didn't go to college to get a date and impress white men, I went to get the skills needed for a career I liked. I had been to undergrad and started grad school twice (for separate degrees) before I ever started dating white men. I don't know why you consider getting a college degree something done to impress white men. Maybe if you see a black women with a college degree and think she wanted a better future for herself, some of this craziness between black men and women would stop. I never understand why black women having a college degree is seen as a negative, but if we don't, then we have no goals and are seen as welfare queens and wanting a man's money. I'm sure that if all the black woemn in college switched to a science or engineering degree, there would still be a problem with them. You say we don't like guys who are too nice, yet many black men pass up good black women because we're too nice, won't sleep around, we aren't light skinned, our hair is not long or straight enough and now we can add that we don't have a science or engineering degree. I know I'm being silly with the last one, but these are the kinds of silly reasons black women are considered undesirable by many black men. Many of the reasons given apply to women of all races, but they only count when being applied to black women. It doesn'tmake sense.

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  30.   SugahRush says:
    Posted: 05 Aug 11

    Submission is not a Racial issue. Its a Human Issue. Though the word conjures up images of subservience, enslavement and abuse, its genesis is actually from the most resolute inner strength. Let me explain Submission and Dominance are complementary roles and neither can exist without the other. Domination is only as strong as its correlating Submission. There are no Masters without a Slave; No Parenting without submissive children. Managers are impotent if Employees refuse to submit to work requirements. There is no Wife without a Husband, and vice versa. We dutifully defer power in the most mundane relationships. For example, Doctors & patients; Employers and Managers; Teachers and students; Pastors and congregations; Customers and businesses; home associations and residents; clubs and members. However, in our most intimate relationships we have a need to declare our INDEPENDENCE. We defiantly proclaim that we Aint SUBMITTIN to no damn body! Sad, really. Of whom and what do we need to be afraid? Why do we avoid the common goal of INTERDEPENDENCE? To be Submissive is not about subservience. Its about trust and empowerment. Do you realize that only a Submissive party can empower a Dominant one? To be submissive requires the highest trust in the integrity and capability of the Dominant One. It also requires an astronomical level of trust in YOURSELFin your ability to choose wisely; in the strengths and gifts which are unique to you. IF YOU CANT TRUST YOUR PARTNER/PARTY, IF YOU CANT SUBMIT TO THEM, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WITH THEM?? Hmmm. Submission requires that we release the impulse to compete with or to teach a thing or two. Its about serving and supporting the other as you are fully equipped, gifted to do so. Its about allowing them access to the most intimate chambers of ones psyche, heart, spirit, life and, at the appropriate time, body. The truest beauty of Submission is that ALL parties of any relationship function in the role of Sub because ALL parties are uniquely equipped to do so. If one fights it, the battle is truly with and within themselves. The relationship will falter or fail without resolution. Sure, both positions can be abused. Abusive SUBMISSION is revealed in manipulative, scheming, extreme behavior. Abusive DOMINATION is overbearing, coercive, intimidating. At their worst, they both are controlling and painfully suffocating. But theres no greater honor,no greater love than to receive the gift of submission.

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    • Onyx_King says:
      Posted: 10 Aug 11

      You are so cool!...what are we discussing again? See, Black men, we're even easily distracted!

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      • SugahRush says:
        Posted: 12 Aug 11

        Onyx. I'm venturing onto the presumption that you intended to reply to my post! LOL. Thank you so much for your kindness. We're discussing SUBMISSION, my Dear. See? Should Black men become 'easily distracted', there's a "cool"[ and calm, collected] Black woman who can 'easily' help him get back on track. He needs only ask. ;-)

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    • TYRANT says:
      Posted: 12 Aug 11

      SugahRush said: To be Submissive is not about subservience. Its about trust and empowerment. Do you realize that only a Submissive party can empower a Dominant one? To be submissive requires the highest trust in the integrity and capability of the Dominant One. It also requires an astronomical level of trust in YOURSELFin your ability to choose wisely; in the strengths and gifts which are unique to you. IF YOU CANT TRUST YOUR PARTNER/PARTY, IF YOU CANT SUBMIT TO THEM, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WITH THEM?? Hmmm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- SugahRush, I enjoyed your whole post because it was well thought out as well as thought provoking. You showed that being a DOMINANT MAN isn't about being abusive and/or treating your woman like CRAP. On the flip side of the coin, you also showed that being a SUBMISSIVE WOMAN isn't about letting a man walk all over you, or worse, being a door mat for a man. It's UNFORTUNATE that TOO FEW women/men understand this, because if they did our relationships would be HAPPIER and more PRODUCTIVE. I think the most important thing that we-as men-FORGET is SUBMISSION, like RESPECT, isn't given, it's EARNED. A man shouldn't have to ask, or God forbid, BEG a woman to be SUBMISSIVE, because if he does then all he's asking for is a HARD TIME and a HARD WAY to go, because if a woman doesn't RESPECT YOU she's NOT going to SUBMIT. Period. Anyway, GREAT POST.

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      • SugahRush says:
        Posted: 12 Aug 11

        Tyrant. First, thank you for your gracious encouragement and observation. I really do appreciate the gift of your time, thought and effort in reading the post. Second, you're quite right..."if a woman doesn't RESPECT YOU she's NOT goin to SUBMIT. Period." IMHO, too few PEOPLE have the confidence to give and receive Submission. A man must trust his own ability to "nurture a woman's ability to be receptive". (Sorta like a type of foreplay but more powerful and meaningful). He also has to trust the reality of her acceptance and "interdependence" (COLLABORATION)--even if he doesn't readily FEEL it. He has to trust that her giftedness lies in the fact that she can do something that he can never do...BE A WOMAN. She has to respect that THEIR (THE COUPLE'S--not her's) best interest is his priority. She has to trust that she is capable of receiving and nurturing his masculine instinct to do what he does best...BE A MAN. The "What have you done for me lately" approach must be scrapped. I often say to younger women in my life (especially my "potential daughters-in-law): "Acknowledge A MAN, Allow him to be THE MAN... He'll let you know when he's YOUR MAN." (that's submission) Thank you again, Tyrant.

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    • nika23 says:
      Posted: 22 May 12

      Submission the way you describe it is what I call showing love and it's what I have done in past relationships, especially with black men, but that has not done me any good. It's only lead to heartbreak because of the overbearing and intimidating behavior of the men. I can't fulfill someone's every wish and get nothing in return, to me it's a one sided relationship. How can men want a woman to submit to them, when they don't want to treat her right when she does? If a woman submits to let a man take care of her financially she's a gold digger, if she submits sexually she's a whore, if she submits control of the household matters she's not doing her part in the relationship. No woman wants to be considered a gold digger, a whore or seen as not participating in the relationship. I really feel no matter what we as black women do, it's always seen negatively by black men. I just don't understand it and frankly I'm tired of trying to please them. Why can't the men make some sacrifices and listen to something the woman has to say, why does it always have to be the woman?

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      • SugahRush says:
        Posted: 30 May 12

        I hear the frustration & exasperation in your words, Nika. It hurts to have submitted/committed yourself to someone who seems unappreciative at best and self-absorbed and abusive at worse. No greater pain, no greater emptiness. As I pointed out in my post, submission isnt a point of weaknessits a demonstration of incredible power!! As with ANY power, there comes incrementally increasing RESPONSIBILITY. Example. You have a 7 carat diamond pendant. Would you even CONSIDER letting your 8 year old niece wear it to school? I DOUBT IT!!! Why? Because she has little or no awareness of how to properly care for it. She would have no understanding of the value of the jewel; of YOUR trust; of HER responsibility!! Submission is like the jewel. We are not born equipped, willing or able to handle, manage or even recognize submission. We must learn the value and be aware of its cost. We are destined to meet many people who we believe or WANT TO BELIEVE are worthy stewards of our gifts of submission. We find out, however, that they are not and our radars were significantly off. The fact is, that everybody aint worthy! The fact is Everyone in my life ISNT WORTHY. So I must make an effort to slow my roll and choose wisely. The fact is that just as the 7 carat jewelry was bought after long, hard work and at a HIGH price (helluva lot higher than a sterling silver toe ring), one who is worthy submission, must have worked hard AND LONG (as in some serious time) to earn your trust and submission. He/she must have also been faithful and diligent in the little things. He/she must prove that he/she has an understanding of the value which is before him/her. And most importantly I must be willing to be alone rather than give my precious jewel to someone who is RIGHT but NOT READY! Chin up, Girl!! Protect your prize! If you're being called names like Gold Digger, wimp or anything re-evaluate YOUR priorities. BUT REMEMBER: "IT AINT WHAT YOU'RE CALLED, IT'S WHAT YOU ANSWER TO!!" =O) =pardon the grammar=

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  31.   misshalee says:
    Posted: 03 Aug 11

    LMAO! please! at Denlinson! that just made my day.. that is exactly the kind of man that would get no where near me.. full of himself for no apparent reason.. i for one am a white woman.. i'm not submissive or weak in any way, but i just respect that everyone is different.. man and woman.. by no means is ANY man going to walk all over me or mistreat me.. but i also am okay with giving him a chance to just be himself.. i'm not gonna be down his throat constantly until/unless he's given me reason.. i think thats the difference that people are talking about.. a lot of black women just seem to jump down their mans throat over the tiniest things.. maybe its just that white women are more relaxed (not weak) and don't feel the need to control the person they're with.. more able to let him be who he is without just assuming off the get go that he's doing somethin he shouldn't.. which to me is realistic.. not weak.. i do find though that a lot of black men get a bad rep.. there are a lot of good black men out there that do know how to treat a woman, and there are a lot that don't, the same as any race.. the ones that don't seem to take it to a higher level.. they strive to be bums n act stupid.. those are the ones that give the good ones a bad name.. the women you usually find with those men are also the same way.. worthless..

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    • reese says:
      Posted: 04 Aug 11

      The main reason why black women are single is because of numbers. There is 2 million difference in black women to black men and because so many refuse to date outside the race which is changing. A black woman didin't wrte ths article a black man did.

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      • Onyx_King says:
        Posted: 10 Aug 11

        James wrote the article as part of his job to get us doing what we are doing... "...2 million difference in black women to black men!" Where? The why the H*LL am I on this website to "find" my good thing!...And I live in the southern US of A!

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    • Denilson2000 says:
      Posted: 05 Aug 11

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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      • sgrnspice03 says:
        Posted: 06 Aug 11

        For an idividual to open their mouths and utter those words makes me wonder who were you raised by? Misogynist pimp for a dad, prostitute for a mother? You seem to lack any respect for women. Black women are by far the strongest because we have to be. When men hit and run, leave a pregnant gf or wife behind, we don't plan on depending on guys like you for what your "pimped out car" is worth because you're unreliable and undependable. The only place we know where to find a guy like you is either in a liquor, or in the club TRYING to hit on anything that you think you have a shot in hell with when you're only purpose in life is to be a whore. The only reason guys like you migrate towards women like that are because you're too lazy to work hard for the woman that challenges you, that would help you actually be THE MAN. Clearly you're not capable of reaching you're potential, so we as black woman make up for your lack of pulling your weight by being the provider, the self reliant, and the go-getter. What bothers you the most is that we see you for exactly what you are and we just don't give you the time of day; "sour grapes" complex anyone? There are great black men out there, you're a misogynist, you don't count for one of the great black men. When a strong woman walks towards you, you should bow your head down the way you have in your picture. With the mindset of an a$$hole, you don't deserve anyone until you change your way of thinking.

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        • r3llim says:
          Posted: 10 Aug 11

          @sgrnspice As a male I kinda have to agree with Denileson. Why do you think the concept of the bad boy is still appreciated among women? Why do you think there are women who dump guys for being too "nice"? It's because women honestly don't want a "good" man. They want a guy who is dangerous, risky, and a thrill. A lot of women just don't want thay guy to treat them like cr@p. On another note let me say that I am startingto get tired of this constant mantra of black women claiming to ALL be superheroes when many of them aren't. Sorry but black women in general know that while there are some black women taking charge of their lives, there are a lot of chicks that slacking off, waiting for a hand out and it has nothing to do with the way a black man treated them. Trust me I have seen and heard of chicks that whore themselves to the biggest baller or any dude that can pay their bills as well live of public assistance. So please don't assume that they were victims of some mistreatment. Also I think its funny that you assume Denileson is lazy and doesn't work because he made one comment you didn't like. Taking personal shots unrelated to the topic is a horrible way to aurgue your point. Denileson may be an a$$hole but so far you haven't proven his point wrong about women liking bad boys and using good guys. Sadly you just to attack his character that you assumed of him to have because he was a black male. If black women are truly strong then debate him and prove him wrong. Otherwise I'm left to assume Denileson is right and your angry because he knows it.

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          • nika23 says:
            Posted: 22 May 12

            I agree with Reese. I don't know too many good women who are interested in thugs, but many of the good guys want the hood girls. Because they are more willing to sleep with them and good girls aren't, many guys often pass up good women to get with the bad girls. This is part of why there are so many single black women, we are looking for the good guys. Where are they? I have never like bad boys and the women I associate with are the same way, but because we may want an educated man who is doing something with his life, we are called gold diggers. Black women can't win. If we give the regular brother a chance, we deserve bad treatment because we like thugs and if we want a man with goals, then we're gold diggers. In dating black women are said to play games because we want to hold off on sex, but for the women who do have sex, they're whores etc. What bothers me mainly is the double standard. If a black woman slept with 5 guys she's a whore, but a white woman can sleep with 50 guys and she's not afraid to express her sexuality. If a black woman has a child out of wedlock she's no longer considered worthy of love, but if a white women is a single mother, there was an injustice done to her. You say you know black women who "whore themselves out to the biggest baller", maybe it's the type of people you associate with. While a person's neighrborhood doesn't necessarily dictate who they are, if you're hanging out in the hood you'll run into hood women. I doubt the same black men who look in the hood for black women look in trailer parks for white women. Of course if you pick up a women at an art gallery, or a museum exhibit or something like that she's more likely to be cultured as less likely to be a hood rat. Many black men use a small percentage of black women to speak for the larger group of black women, but get upset when we mention that 70% of them abandon their children. Does it make sense to look for black women only in the hood and look for non-black women out of the hood? I'm sure white women from the trailer park and black women from the hood have more in common just like the average black middle class woman and the average white middle class woman have more in common. Why don't black men try a middle class black woman instead of only hood black girls before proclaiming all the negative things they say about black women? You can't blame all black women for a sub-culture within the black culture. Black women find black men in the hood, middle class or even high class black men and they could still abandon their children. It's not just thugs who hang on the corner and sell drugs, black men with colleges degrees and businesses, even lawyers and doctors abandon the kids they have with black women. One lawyer I heard of quit his job and started doing pro bono work so he wouldn't have to pay child support, how sad is that? How could you care so little for a child you created? What because the mother is no longer sleeping with you, you refuse to take care of your own flesh and blood? The mother of his child was no welfare woman, she was a professional and an author. I don't know why men abandon their kids because I know women who have gone through this and they are not difficult, angry or bitter. They are just regular women looking for love and they fell for a guy who refused to take care of his responsibilities. I know this was long, but I have a problem with men who abandon their kids. I think my dad is the gretest and I can't imagine life without him. I hate hearing the stories about men making promises to their children to see them, then standing them up. This would be hurtful to an adult, men need to think about a child and how this affects them more than how upset they are at the mother (sometimes just because she moved on). I don't understand why black men say such negative things about black women when the reality is much different. While I don't view education and income as the only indicator of the quality of a person, black women outnumber black men 6:1 (average colleges) and 8:1 (Black colleges) and many of us are starting businesses so there are many good black women if black men wanted to choose from us. And for the record I have been dumped by a black man for being nice (so much for black women being difficult) and I have been accused of trying to trick them by being nice. I really feel that no matter what black women do it will never be enough for black men. If they want to date interacially do so, but don't make up lies or exaggerate the truth about black women. It's the lies about our character that upset black women because the majority of us are nothing like the hoochie mamas and gold diggers that black men say we are.

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        • Reese says:
          Posted: 10 Aug 11

          I know good guys do win. You just look at Obama and many others. While the prisions and graves are filled with bad guys who have lost.

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          • r3llim says:
            Posted: 11 Aug 11

            @ Reese, I see what your saying but bad guys losing is kinda like how the joker lost in "the Dark Knight". He's finally caught but not before corrupting Harvey Dent of in this case other women men (and a lot of times black men). Good guys do win EVENTUALLY when a woman becomes mature and base her criteria on a man by what he can provide for her financially, spiritually, and in intelligence. Women never become bored or uninterested in bad boys. They just become tired of theconsequences from the bad boy's antics that they were once attracted to. No young girl in her late teens to early 20's ever fantasizes about hard working, well mined dude. At least not when she can day dream about a ruthless thug who amazingly has a heart. I'm just saying that many guys know that the key to attracting any woman is to be a little bad and it doesn't matter if the girl is a book worm or hood rat. I think young pretty girls start showing some attention to the Steve Urkel's and not the Lil Wayne's of the youth. Then maybe some boys might start striving to be good guys and eventually good men rather than not try to out bad each other for girls who would some day mature and long for good men.

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          • REESE says:
            Posted: 14 Aug 11

            I agree that too many women do go for the wrong things and then complain about not being able to find a good man. But men do it too. But I think you would be surprised that alot of women are not interested in bad guys. And some women have never been interested. Some women (more than men it seems) are unable to distinglush it.

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      • TYRANT says:
        Posted: 12 Aug 11

        @ sgrnspice sgrnspice03 said: The only reason guys like you migrate towards women like that are because youre too lazy to work hard for the woman that challenges you, that would help you actually be THE MAN. Clearly youre not capable of reaching youre potential, so we as black woman make up for your lack of pulling your weight by being the provider, the self reliant, and the go-getter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Out of curiosity, how can a woman help me be THE MAN when the woman is INCAPABLE of recognizing MY POTENTIAL? Also, how can a woman help me be THE MAN when she's too BUSY being a NARCISSIST? After all, it's hard to notice a man's potential, or anyone else's for that matter, when you're occupied with your mirror.

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    • TYRANT says:
      Posted: 12 Aug 11

      reese said: The main reason why black women are single is because of numbers. There is 2 million difference in black women to black men and because so many refuse to date outside the race which is changing. A black woman didint wrte ths article a black man did. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hate to be the bearer of BAD NEWS but don't expect the number of black women REFUSING to date outside of the race to change by any significant margin anytime soon. Why, you wonder? Simple, believe it not the vast majority of black women PREFER black men. Sorry, but I gotta go there. I know, this isn't the news you want to hear, and in a fairy tale world, you would hear that 99.9999999% of black women are in IR relationships with non-black men. I don't see that happening even with black men being portrayed by the MEDIA as CRIMINALS, VIOLENT ANIMALS, DRUG DEALERS, WIFE BEATERS, and MYSOGYNISTS. To be honest, I don't see any reason why it should. After all, white men have committed some of the most HORRIFIC crimes in the history of man, and they still enjoy a HUGE level of RESPECT from women, so why should it be any different for black men?

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      • REESE says:
        Posted: 13 Aug 11

        No, I don't think all black men are bad. I think there are good and bad in all races. But I think that black women are going to choose ir instead of being single just like everybody else. I see alot of white women who white men wouldn't approach who are with blacks or latinos. Some of us have simply changed from finding a good black man to finding a good man of any race.

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  32. Posted: 02 Aug 11

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  33.   Onyx_King says:
    Posted: 01 Aug 11

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  34.   reese says:
    Posted: 01 Aug 11

    Alot of black women are independent because we have to be because we have been doing everything in are communities. The fact of the matter is that most black women are in a better financial position than black male counterparts and most men particularly black men are not in position to take care of women and family anymore. And alot of sisters like a take charge type of man. But you have to be the man. You cannot do that if I am the one educated and making all the money. And that is why some of us are looking outside the race because we want date equal or up. And the ratio of educated and employed and unlikely or competitive for black men because so rare. At most colleges there are two black women for every black male.

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    • nika23 says:
      Posted: 22 May 12

      Although I agree that many black men don't take care of their family, I don't only base it on income. I have dated black, white, Asian and Hispanic men that earned less than me, but the experience was different with the non black men. I want someone who has similar goals and it's been hard to find black men similar goals. While black men have criticized my advanced degree as a way to get power over them, non black men have praised me for having goals and achieving them. I want to have a family, but the majority of black men say they never want to get married, yet they want you to have children with them. I have a lot of respect for single moms, but I don't ever want to be a single mother. I want my future children to have a father in their life and I want a life companion. I want someone who will be there for me through thick and thin because I'm the type of women who will be there for my man. The other big issue is fidelity. Many black men say black women are angry, but they fail to mention the woman is usually angry because they cheated on her. They claim that white and and Asian women never get upset, even when they cheat (Tiger Woods and many others learned this the hard way), and they do everything they tell them to do. While being ordered around may be OK for other women, it certsainly is not for me. I have no problem with going along with something a man said, but I'm not going to be pretend and do whatever he commands just to be married. I believe in communication and working things out together instead of doing only what the man says. Unless you are a robot, you can only pretend for so long before things begin to fall apart. If they really believe non black women don't get upset and will follow their every command forever, I think they are in for a rude awakening. Maybe that is why the divorce rate is higher amongst black men who marry interacially.

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